John3 and Romans2: Part2

[Amanah]

Here's the scripture references:

Romans 3:23 says, 'For all have sinned and fall short of the glory of God.' Romans 3:24-25 explains that we are 'justified freely by His grace through the redemption that is in Christ Jesus' and that 'God set Him forth as a propitiation by His blood, through faith, to demonstrate His righteousness.' Ephesians 2:8-9 reminds us that 'by grace you have been saved through faith, and that not of yourselves; it is the gift of God, not of works, lest anyone should boast.'

In summary, the scriptures say:

- All have sinned and are guilty before God (Romans 3:23)
- No one can be made right with God through their own works of righteousness (Romans 3:19-20)
- We are justified by faith in the Messiah, through God's grace and redemption (Romans 3:24-25)
- Salvation is a gift from God, not earned by our works (Ephesians 2:8-9)"

[Evang.Benincasa]

Originally Posted by Amanah

Here's the scripture references:

Romans 3:23 says, 'For all have sinned and fall short of the glory of God.' Romans 3:24-25 explains that we are 'justified freely by His grace through the redemption that is in Christ Jesus' and that 'God set Him forth as a propitiation by His blood, through faith, to demonstrate His righteousness.' Ephesians 2:8-9 reminds us that 'by grace you have been saved through faith, and that not of yourselves; it is the gift of God, not of works, lest anyone should boast.'

In summary, the scriptures say:

- All have sinned and are guilty before God (Romans 3:23)
- No one can be made right with God through their own works of righteousness (Romans 3:19-20)
- We are justified by faith in the Messiah, through God's grace and redemption (Romans 3:24-25)
- Salvation is a gift from God, not earned by our works (Ephesians 2:8-9)"

Look Don, Amanah just proved you wrong again.

How about if we have a discussion on how screws are better than nails when building a deck?

[Amanah]

Don
When sharing scripture, we are simply representing what the Bible says, as Peter and John said in Acts 4:20, 'We cannot but speak the things which we have seen and heard.' it's not to offend or become an enemy, as Paul asked in Galatians 4:16, 'Have I therefore become your enemy because I tell you the truth?' but to share the truth in love and respect, without personal bias or agenda. to faithfully represent the scriptures, even if it challenges or confronts, because that's what God's word is meant to do - transform and renew us.

[donfriesen1]

Originally Posted by Evang.Benincasa

Look Don, Amanah just proved you wrong again. Except she didn't.

How about if we have a discussion on how screws are better than nails when building a deck? Thx. We agree! I got a chuckle out of reading that for some reason.

.

[Evang.Benincasa]

Originally Posted by donfriesen1

Except she didn't.

No, she did.

Originally Posted by donfriesen1

Thx. We agree! I got a chuckle out of reading that for some reason.

Good, because you are unable to prove your teaching of a Gospel of Inclusion.

Also the Stanley Cup is in Fort Lauderdale.

[donfriesen1]

Originally Posted by Amanah

Romans says that all have sinned, all are guilty, Of course all are guilty, by sin. all need to be made right with God by faith in the Messiah. And what of those who have never heard of the Messiah? Does God fry them? Plz respond with an answer this question.

No one is made right by their own works of righteousness. Agreed, 100%

It is impossible to live right enough to stand before the Creator and Judge of the universe and sing "I did it my way," and be justified. Oh, what a large choir this will be on That Day. The question really is how you define "I did it my way,". Does someone responding to God-given instructions (the conscience) do it 'my way' or do they do it God's way. Their fallen nature is saying 'do it' but the God-given conscience is saying ' do it God's way'. Doesn't your logic tell you that if they respond, it is to God's way and therefore it isn't their own good works. Do you now see what I've been trying to say all along?

.

[Evang.Benincasa]

Originally Posted by donfriesen1

Of course all are guilty, by sin.

Yet, you believe that someone who hasn’t had the Gospel presented to them are sinless. Therefore if they have a good conscience, and live right by “your” standards they are Heaven bound. Hence you teach salvation by works alone.
Thank you for playing. Religion has burnt your biscuits.

Originally Posted by donfriesen1

And what of those who have never heard of the Messiah? Does God fry them? Plz respond with an answer this question.

Snap, Krackle, Pop, baby, snap, krackle, pop.

Originally Posted by donfriesen1

Agreed, 100%

Don, then you stink and communicating your thoughts. Or you are just a religious mental case. Don, your teaching is that if someone hasn’t heard the Gospel message, and never had faith in Christ, they aren’t lost. Therefore based on this fact, from all you have even posted in this reply to Amanah. You believe that a right living soul is saved because they NEVER HEARD the Gospel. They are saved by their own righteousness. Figure it out.

Originally Posted by donfriesen1

Oh, what a large choir this will be on That Day. The question really is how you define "I did it my way,". Does someone responding to God-given instructions (the conscience) do it 'my way' or do they do it God's way. Their fallen nature is saying 'do it' but the God-given conscience is saying ' do it God's way'. Doesn't your logic tell you that if they respond, it is to God's way and therefore it isn't their own good works. Do you now see what I've been trying to say all along?

Don, you are saying that the conscience is God speaking to man? Ok, one God isn’t speaking to you, and two if He was He wouldn’t have you teaching this mess.
I can only ascertain that your conscience has been seared with a very hot iron.

[donfriesen1]

Originally Posted by Amanah

Don
When sharing scripture, we are simply representing what the Bible says, as Peter and John said in Acts 4:20, 'We cannot but speak the things which we have seen and heard.' it's not to offend or become an enemy, as Paul asked in Galatians 4:16, 'Have I therefore become your enemy because I tell you the truth?' but to share the truth in love and respect, without personal bias or agenda. to faithfully represent the scriptures, even if it challenges or confronts, because that's what God's word is meant to do - transform and renew us.

Amen. Thx so much for a fair, withholding-no-punches approach to discussing. I'm extremely favourable to such a reproach because it provides a method to be candid, which is necessary on subjects of eternal weight. Ouch me all you want with the doubled-edged sword of truth but under-handed methods like: 1) distorting a point someone makes to other than what they intended. 2) nit-picking at meaningless details only in efforts to discredit someone's character in efforts to denigrade their contentions, flies in the face of Jesus who asks us to 'Let your speech always be with grace, seasoned with salt'. Those who do such things are walking in the alley where consciences are seared and justify their methods with thoughts like 'the truth demands we stand up for it by such methods if need be'. Absolutely, error should be exposed But the wisdom that is from above is first pure, then peaceable, gentle, willing to yield, full of mercy and good fruits, without partiality and without hypocrisy. Methods like some used in this thread belong with politicians and lawyers, the hated of our society with their off-colour ways, when it isn't necessary to do so. Instead, it is a hindrance to sharing truth, wastes everyone's time, clouds a discovery of what God wants to say. Shame on anyone who doesn't choose another method. But I'm wasting my breath. Repeatedly lying to oneself about such methods results in the lie becoming truth.

[Amanah]

As others have pointed out, we are at a stalemate with this discussion, so it should probably come to an end. Maybe there is something else you would like to discuss.


~~~~~~~~~~The End~~~~~~~~~

[Esaias]

Just a final note:

Originally Posted by donfriesen1

... but under-handed methods like: 1) distorting a point someone makes to other than what they intended.

Something YOU have done, which was pointed out to you, with no response but for you to double-down on it. Nobody distorted any of your points, you made it very clear what points you wanted to make, we just pointed out how your points are erroneous.

2) nit-picking at meaningless details only in efforts to discredit someone's character in efforts to denigrade their contentions,

Pointing out your errors is what you call "nit-picking". Nobody is discrediting your character, you've done that all by yourself.

flies in the face of Jesus who asks us to 'Let your speech always be with grace, seasoned with salt'.

Having one's speech being "grace seasoned with salt" does not mean "agree with Don". Sorry.

Those who do such things are walking in the alley where consciences are seared and justify their methods with thoughts like 'the truth demands we stand up for it by such methods if need be'.

See? Talk about attempting to discredit someone's character. This is your standard procedure when someone doesn't agree with your unbiblical ideas.

Absolutely, error should be exposed But the wisdom that is from above is first pure, then peaceable, gentle, willing to yield, full of mercy and good fruits, without partiality and without hypocrisy.

Titus 3:10-11 KJV
A man that is an heretick after the first and second admonition reject; [11] Knowing that he that is such is subverted, and sinneth, being condemned of himself.

Methods like some used in this thread belong with politicians and lawyers, the hated of our society with their off-colour ways, when it isn't necessary to do so. Instead, it is a hindrance to sharing truth, wastes everyone's time, clouds a discovery of what God wants to say. Shame on anyone who doesn't choose another method.

Yes, the methods you used in this thread are indeed just like the glib silver-tongued doublespeak used by politicians.

2 Peter 2:18-21 KJV
For when they speak great swelling words of vanity, they allure through the lusts of the flesh, through much wantonness, those that were clean escaped from them who live in error. [19] While they promise them liberty, they themselves are the servants of corruption: for of whom a man is overcome, of the same is he brought in bondage. [20] For if after they have escaped the pollutions of the world through the knowledge of the Lord and Saviour Jesus Christ, they are again entangled therein, and overcome, the latter end is worse with them than the beginning. [21] For it had been better for them not to have known the way of righteousness, than, after they have known it, to turn from the holy commandment delivered unto them.

Colossians 2:8 KJV
Beware lest any man spoil you through philosophy and vain deceit, after the tradition of men, after the rudiments of the world, and not after Christ.

2 Timothy 2:16 KJV
But shun profane and vain babblings: for they will increase unto more ungodliness.

But I'm wasting my breath. Repeatedly lying to oneself about such methods results in the lie becoming truth.

Lies never become truth. Rather, people who believe lies wind up in a lake of fire:

2 Thessalonians 2:10-12 KJV
And with all deceivableness of unrighteousness in them that perish; because they received not the love of the truth, that they might be saved. [11] And for this cause God shall send them strong delusion, that they should believe a lie: [12] That they all might be damned who believed not the truth, but had pleasure in unrighteousness.