Divorce and Remarriage

[Evang.Benincasa]

Originally Posted by berkeley

That’s. Not. Repentance.

Hence the reason why Chris' favorite cereal is....

[Evang.Benincasa]

Originally Posted by Aquila

You mean I could get paid to put up with this?!!!!

That is what's happening anyway.

You are doing this at work, correct?

[Evang.Benincasa]

Originally Posted by Aquila

Marriage = Indissoluble & Holy
Divorce = Sin
Remarriage = Indissoluble & Sin (adulterous)

Repentance wouldn't be to commit the sin of divorce all over again by divorcing one's second wife, because even the second union is just as indissoluble as the first. Repentance demands that one stop the pattern of divorce and remarriage. This ceases to adulterate the union any further with third, fourth, or fifth additional unions.

And while such sin can be forgiven and covered by the blood, and the second union even sanctified in God's sight... it disqualifies one from the office of bishop/elder.

Forgiveness is possible, but consequences are irreversible.

Chris so is this special grace just for the sin of adultery?

[Aquila]

Originally Posted by Evang.Benincasa

The early church didn't try to find who was at fault? PROVE IT

You'll find in your studies that the early church never praised second marriages, regardless of any fault or innocence claimed by any party involved. It was a mute point. Divorce was a fall from grace, a sin. And remarriage was the establishment of a second indissoluble union, which was a sin against the first (adultery). The only recourse was to cleanse and sanctify the first marriage through contrition and repentance, ceasing the act of divorce and/or remarriage. Having more than one indissoluble union disqualified one from the office of bishop, and still does in the Greek Orthodox churches.

Here's something I find interesting. Common modern interpretations justify divorce and remarriage if some sense of marital unfaithfulness is claimed or demonstrated. I know people who have claimed their past four spouses were martially unfaithful! lol

It's all an attempt to justify sin. Sin that needs to be recognized, confessed, and repented of so that forgiveness and blessing can flow into a broken human circumstance.

[Evang.Benincasa]

Originally Posted by Aquila

Repentance wouldn't be to commit the sin of divorce all over again by divorcing one's second wife, because even the second union is just as indissoluble as the first. Repentance demands that one stop the pattern of divorce and remarriage. This ceases to adulterate the union any further with third, fourth, or fifth additional unions.

Chris, shave your beard off.

The above isn't just a convoluted mess, but created by no one else but you.

Do you personally know anyone else who teaches this?

[Amanah]

Originally Posted by Aquila

Elder, this topic can be discussed without personal references.

If one commits the sin of divorce and commits the sin of remarriage they are now in a second binding union, even if it is sinful. The answer isn't to multiply sin by divorcing. The answer is to repent of divorce and remarriage. How? By determining not to divorce and remarry again.

You seem to be obsessed with the frequency in which one uses their genitals. I'm talking about the ontological reality of two dissoluble unions that even a second divorce can never remedy.

Brother, there are biblical grounds for divorce.

Are you sure that your guilt isn't stemming from you feeling that your unconventional marriage is not biblical?

I think your current unconventional marriage might exclude you from leadership roles, maybe that is what is bothering you?

[n david]

Originally Posted by Aquila

Elder, this topic can be discussed without personal references.

Unfortunately, you brought the personal reference into the discussion. When you do that, you can't complain when the personal reference you made is discussed.

Originally Posted by Aquila

You seem to be obsessed with the frequency in which one uses their genitals.

Please read the quote to which you posted your response and please highlight where there is any mention of the use of genitals. You've posted about mischaracterizations and false statements made of you, yet you post this absurd line which has no relevance to the quote below.

"Chris, this discussion is no longer about one wife elders, ruling their house's well, or even divorce and remarriage. This is solely about your view of soteriology. That anyone can continue in sin as long as they acknowledge that what they are doing is sin. To confess that sin to Jesus, but not abandoned the sin. You have posted pages in this thread and taught us four things. That one, your remarriage currently is a sin against God. Two, you have sought God for absolution of this sin. Three, you have grace over your sinful union, and finally four, you can not be in leadership? You claim that your repentance is to insure you won't get divorced and remarried a second time? Where do you get this principle from? Do you get it from the doctrine for the clean shaven face? Or beards are mandatory on all adult men handbook? Chris, you have spent a lot of time condemning the clean shaved preacher. But what about you? Where is the precedent for your soteriology? People can commit adultery and continue in adultery under Jesus name? Stick that in your L O L."

[Evang.Benincasa]

Originally Posted by Aquila

You'll

find in your studies that the early church never praised second marriages, regardless of any fault or innocence claimed by any party involved.

What part of prove it don't you understand? Do anyone ever say prove it, where you live? You said that the early church never sought an innocent party? Jesus had a woman who was caught in adultery, He let her go because there was no proof of the adultery. Because the witnesses were required to bring the male with the female. Especially since she was caught in the VERY ACT.

Originally Posted by Aquila

It was a mute point. Divorce was a fall from grace, a sin.

Jeremiah 3:8 so God fell from Grace? God sinned by handing His wife a bill of divorcement? Because she was an adultress? Deuteronomy 24:1-4 was written to cause Israel to sin? Ezra 10:2-4 which was the trespass? The marriages or the divorces? We are told the marriages were unlawful. This might come as a total surprise to you, but the early church used the OT as their Bible. I don't see where you have a precedent for your soteriology?

Originally Posted by Aquila

And remarriage was the establishment of a second indissoluble union, which was a sin against the first (adultery). The only recourse was to cleanse and sanctify the first marriage through contrition and repentance, ceasing the act of divorce and/or remarriage. Having more than one indissoluble union disqualified one from the office of bishop, and still does in the Greek Orthodox churches.

Here's something I find interesting. Common modern interpretations justify divorce and remarriage if some sense of marital unfaithfulness is claimed or demonstrated. I know people who have claimed their past four spouses were martially unfaithful! lol

It's all an attempt to justify sin. Sin that needs to be recognized, confessed, and repented of so that forgiveness and blessing can flow into a broken human circumstance.

So, tell me again? Why can't you stop the adultery? Paul said that if a man join to a prostitute they are one flesh? So are the multiple interactions with prostitutes down at their local temple unbreakable unions? They must be, according to your theology.

[n david]

Page 5, post #49

http://www.apostolicfriendsforum.com...3&postcount=49

You brought your personal issues into the discussion. No one asked, no one requested, no one mentioned anything before you brought it up.

To make a plea and ask that the topic be discussed now without personal references, is like trying to put toothpaste back in the tube.

[Aquila]

Originally Posted by Evang.Benincasa

All viable reasons but what Chris is saying is that you can divorce but never remarry as long as the other spouse is living. You can get remarried as per Chris' view if you cannot control yourself. But, you will be in sin, and have to do some sort of ecclesiastical penance of acknowledging that the union is sin. This is done through weeping, wailing, and gnashing of teeth.

It's called confession and seeking mercy. When one confesses their sin and seeks mercy, forgiveness and blessing can flow.

I know a young lady who married a man who was divorced. Before their wedding she invited him out to eat to introduce him to all of us. He was a pleasant fellow. When she was talking to us (mainly my wife at the time), she said, "Yeah, he's divorced. But she cheated on him, so we're good."

That floored me. Because the exception clause only applies to husbands and wives who were in betrothal under Jewish tradition.

She would have been better off to say, "I know he's been married before. But we're in love. I can't imagine my life without him. I would have never imagined marrying a divorced man in a million years, until I met him. I pray that God have mercy on us." At least that would be real. And if sincere, I believe God is gracious and desires to forgive us. Such confession and brokenness over the human condition is healing and opens the doors for God's gracious mercy to flow and give beauty for ashes.

But... she went on her way, with her bun bobbing around high in the air, like she was happy his wife cheated on him so that, "they were good". He had the same perspective. All smiles, "she cheated on me's". No brokenness, no contrition, no soul searching for the sin they were about to commit. As a result... he never truly evaluated what it was in him that contributed to his divorce. While yes, she cheated on him (according to him of course), he never dug deep enough to realize that it was his own emotional aloofness that contributed to his wife's feeling starved for affection, leaving her open to the temptation of any man who would show her attention. Guess what... history repeated itself. This once bubbling couple who were all smiles about how "they were good" was ended with fighting, bitterness, and unfaithfulness.

It was really sad, because she was a young girl who had never been married before. Her own father had his reservations about her marrying a man who had been divorced. But, she was determined.

I believe that deep soul searching, confession of sin, desire to understand the previous sin of divorce and why it happened and how all parties contributed, and the determination not to ever divorce again could have gone a long way.

But, he was cheated on, so they thought "they were good".