Psychotropic Drugs in Religious Rituals

[houston]

Originally Posted by Evang.Benincasa

CBD is being sold all over the place. In 7/11, the gas stations, Nutrition stores.
All kinds, all shapes and sizes.

Yeah, I know. I got mine at a classy smoke shop. Really. Not one of those ghetto places. Lol. I thought it would help me sleep. It didn’t.

[houston]

Originally Posted by 1ofthechosen

Did it help for pain? Lol

What pain?

[1ofthechosen]

Originally Posted by houston

What pain?

Sounds like it worked.. Not a placebo after all.. Lol I don't know that's what they say it is a natural pain reliever, I did a google search. I guess the shock treatments already have that under control though..

[houston]

Originally Posted by 1ofthechosen

Sounds like it worked.. Not a placebo after all.. Lol I don't know that's what they say it is a natural pain reliever, I did a google search. I guess the shock treatments already have that under control though..

What? No! This was some time ago.

[1ofthechosen]

Originally Posted by houston

What? No! This was some time ago.

Oh ok

[n david]

Originally Posted by Evang.Benincasa

One of my favorite Billy Cole messages!

This one is good, too.

[votivesoul]

Originally Posted by Aquila

Votive, you bring up a number of excellent, and important points. I'll share my thoughts.

First, I want to say that I'm not advocating a sinful lifestyle. The "stoner culture" isn't at all what I've encountered or what is in my mind. I'm talking about the use of a medication that was abused by a specific group in our culture, that has been lifted out of that culture and is used by everyday people who have specific medical conditions whose symptoms can be treated by it.

When I speak of legalization, I'm not advocating "stoner culture" either. I'm saying that the War On Drugs has been an abysmal failure. A failure that has led to countless violations of our constitutional rights, a failure that costs more than 51 billion dollars every year, a failure that has led to the incarceration of millions of Americans, a failure that has led to countless deaths, a failure that has even played a part in military conflict... all over a plant that is no worse than a bottle of Jack Daniel's. It's a pretty well known fact that the studies used to criminalize it were tragically flawed, and some data was outright fabricated. Legalization is about putting an end to the madness, and approaching drug addiction as a medical problem, not a criminal problem. I believe I read an article on Portugal wherein they essentially legalized all drugs and set up a network of clinics that specialize in addressing drug abuse medically. The crime rate dropped and the number of reported addicts and drug related violent crime has dropped nearly 50%. They don't criminalize, arrest, and incarcerate people with addiction, they treat them. Now, is it a perfect system? No. No human system is perfect. However, it isn't the police state insanity that was evolving in their war on drugs. Even law enforcement officers have voiced how they'd rather be pursuing violent criminals than college kids smoking weed.

I'm not advocating a life style. I'm advocating an entirely different social paradigm wherein drug abuse is addressed medically and not criminally. Addicts are sick. They don't need to be locked up. They need sound medical help. And such a culture would open up a world of opportunity for churches to focus in on how to set up private rehab centers that do focus on deliverance and salvation. If we can get everyone to put their guns down and see addicts as sick people in need of help instead of a criminal record and jail time... we can truly save millions of lives.

I believe that nothing is unclean in and of itself. The spiritual oppression surrounding a thing or behavior is typically a part of the culture created by the people involved. For example, there are subcultures of sexual sin and debauchery that is just as demonized and spiritually filthy as the "stoner" subculture. That doesn't mean that sex is evil. It means that evil is being done with sex. I don't see cannabis as evil. What is evil is the abuse of it in a culture of people that don't know God. Satan will use anything to trap and oppress people. I've noticed that there is a spirit associated in "gun culture". There are spirits associated in "motorcycle culture". But guns and motorcycles aren't sinful in and of themselves. Same with cannabis. So, I agree that there are definitely spiritual concerns we must take into consideration. But I think blaming a plant and not the people involved is not actually seeing the whole picture. When I see a kid in a hard working middle class family who has suffered from over 10 seizures a day, and how the parents were at wits end trying to find relief for their child with every other medication available, and nothing was working... and after breaking down and trying cannabis, the child's seizures have ceased. I can see how lifting the medication out of the drug culture into the light of modern medicine can help millions, and remove it from the actual spiritual forces in the lives of corrupt people in the drug culture who have perverted its use.

I sincerely pray that you can see that I'm not advocating a sinful lifestyle. For those who have dealt with drug culture, I can understand the trepidation. But there's no comparison to what I'm talking about.

Yes, Big Marijuana is forming. That's a natural expectation of the free market. And if it proves more holistic and healthy than Big Pharma, it deserves to give Big Pharma a run for its money. In fact, it might create market forces that bring down the cost of many prescription medications, thereby even helping those who don't wish to use cannabis save money on their chosen medications. Competition is a good thing.

Lastly, something should be said about so many who are suffering from such terrible symptoms that they'd rather risk getting arrested than continue living in the Hell on Earth that they are currently in. Without elaborating and sounding extra sappy with examples of how PTSD has destroyed lives, marriages, families, and how epilepsy, Parkinson's, cancer, etc. have all presented such horrible symptoms to live with, the alternative... the legalization of cannabis... seems to be a matter of common sense.

Hey, guess what? I'm not and have not, been talking about stoner culture or burnouts. I am and have been, talking about people using marijuana medicinally the whole time.

Think of this way: Big Pharma and irresponsible doctors have created a massive opioid addiction crisis in the US, right? We're talking legalized prescription medication with proven symptom relief, thousands of long-term studies available, full FDA support. The whole deal.

And how did this happen? Because of one word: pain.

But pain is subjective. No one can accurately describe to another how much pain they feel, and no one can conceive or begin to acknowledge whether or not someone is in sufficiently warranted pain. Especially things like back or neck, and ESPECIALLY psychological pain.

People lie and cheat the system all of the time. Just for their legally prescribed drugs.

So, if all of this has happened in a green tree, so to speak, what do you suppose is going to happen in a dry one? When marijuana is legal, even if only medically, with an Rx?

If the nation cannot keep it's opioid and alcohol consumption in check, not to mention nicotine and food addictions, suddenly it's all going to work out in the end for cannabis?

Marijuana is an all natural plant that God created, right? So is cocaina. Do you advocate it medicinal use? Opium comes from poppies, an all natural plant created by God. Shall we use it medicinally?

As far as epilepsy is concerned, it was once upon a time treated universally with a ketogenic diet. To fantastic results. Ever hear of the GAPS diet?

There are so many alternative ways to treat all of these various conditions, and none of them involve inducing a subpar psychological state that leaves you spiritually vulnerable to influences outside of your control because you're too high to notice or care.

And as far as these poor young people in the clink for possessing or slinging dope, where do you think it comes from? Mexico is the world's second largest producer of marijuana, after Morocco (See: https://hightimes.com/news/who-is-th...abis-producer/).

And it comes across the border to here. Who do you think is in charge of the weed cartels? The same cartels in charge of the coke and smack cartels, and they are murdering people by the thousands every year.

So, the college student with a bag of weed in his coat is potentially party to sex-trafficking, mass murdering gangs all across Central America simply by buying and using their product, thus keeping them in business.

And if you think legalization is going to solve all of that, you are aware that there is still a black market for legal things like cigarettes, cigars, and booze, and prescription drugs, right? Legalization doesn't solve issues, it just creates more.

[votivesoul]

Originally Posted by Evang.Benincasa

Chris, you don't post as if it is just your opinion. Big difference. You post as if the things you say, the article you present, and videos you show are solid evidence for your claims. Hence the "arguments" due to rebuttals of you fallacy being paraded as facts. Chris, Votive and myself know far more than you because we lived it. Lived around people who suffered through these drugs you advocate as miraculous cures. Votive and I have also seen conversions of people who once SUFFERED from the destructive results of marijuana to convert to the saving power of the Holy Ghost. You have no hands on experience with any of that, therefore you see cannabis as the second coming.



Obsessing, far from it. I'm just keeping in front and center, pointing out who and what you really are. That my observances of you are correct. While you would rather have these issues remain buried beneath pages of posts.



Hence the reason you are called multifaceted. You are a flip flopper, you range from pole to pole. So, bringing these things up show what you are about. Oddly enough, you happen to not like that, because you understand it blows your cover.



But we are, you just happen to be dishonest, and it exposes your game.



Chris, if you were honest, and if you really sought to have some sort of meeting of the minds. Then you wouldn't battle so hard for people to accept your position concerning the most outrageous ideas. Listen, how long where you in Christianity? Apostolic Pentecostalism? Even the bless me club you just left didn't accept your ideas. But, instead of working something out, you left. Therefore, with this medium you only retreat when you really ram your foot in your mouth. You leave for a time, then come back when you believe everyone has forgotten. Chris, we wouldn't ever agree on psychotropic drug use. You have a huge deficit in that you are clueless of any hands on real life experience with doing them, living in a culture which was using, or the effects of those substances being used on others. All you are doing is Polly Parroting NPR and all the other Bernie Sanderisms you ram down our throats. In short, once again Chris you pick topics to incite a riot, not to discuss the facts to find the Truth.



That is part of your somersaulting and flip flopping to gain advantage in the discussion. You want everyone to think you are being balanced, and somewhat Libertarian Christain. Yet, Chris, we don't determine a discussion from one post, or from one thread. We take into consideration everything you have written on the subject or even other subjects. Even if every point of view you had penned wasn't really who you are, you paint a picture of someone looking to have others agree of psychotropic plant and fungi consumption. Who is trying to convince a Christina forum to consume cannabis' THC. Which I and others are 100% against.




Chris that is full blown baloney. Illegal, doesn't mean impossible to acquire and use. I cannot own a RPG 7, but it isn't impossible to buy one, and own it.
I said all that to say this, if cannabis or LSD were the miraculous substances you and your BIG PHARMA propaganda claims, then honeychild we would of been using it for those conditions long ago Jim. So, while you have been convinced of the stories, I have seen the results first hand. I don't buy what you are selling...Pusherman.



Why because you heard that somewhere?



I know first hand, you heard it somewhere, or read about it in a Google search. I thought you were EMS? All first responders I know, have dealt with multiple psychotropic situations. I know of a church group who worked EMS at concerts, they would wonder how long you have been EMS. Another thing, Apostolic Pentecostal service cause you to have PTSD issues, but working as a first responder doesn't?




The above is another way of saying the lesser of two evils. That isn't how we come to truth. Potential only means it could develop into something positive. In other words, it may or may not work. We are telling you that the use of weed doesn't conclusively prove it cures. Reason being we have seen that it doesn't. Listen, I don't want someone smoking a dube an operating a crane. i don't want someone riding with me on their GXR, when they finished smoking one dube. Listen, people do it all the time and are able to operate the crane, ride the bike, and get home. But the the times that the THC causes a glitch, someone dies. Can you dig that potential? No, you will figure out another agenda motivated argument against it. Again, Aquila when was the last time you ingested CANNABIS!



My sister just endured a year of debilitating chemo treatments. She smoked weed when she was young. Also knew about medical marijuana being used for people who were being treated with chemo. Do you know why she chose not to use the weed to treat the negative effects of chemo? I know more about hormonal effects from food, chemicals, emotions and our surroundings, then you. In weightlifting, what works for one athlete may not work for another. Because one BCCA, or supplement cannot do its job, if other factors are employed. Someone who is telling you a vegan diet is profitable to them, doesn't mean it will be profitable to you or i. Because we are not all the same. Telling me I'm broadbrushing this subject is what you are actually doing. Because you are clueless about human physiology. But wait? You are EMS? You would have to know these things? But the question is why would you believe a natural substance will work for everyone in the situations you had mentioned? You understanding the body works would know that? Right?

So, while THC might work for these people, it might work for none of the other group, and there may have a group who had a bad reaction? Again, you are playing Russian Roulette. With souls, and all you can give is dramatic tear jerking stories as you always do.




That is a stupid thing to say. I haven't been talking about 1936 film Reefer Madness. I'm speaking about what I know, Votive, and 1ofthechosen are posting about what they know. All three of us been there done that, and found that the power of Jesus Christ' Holy Ghost is the only way.




This one quote proves your cluelessness concerning this subject.

Putting more narcotics legal, is using gasoline to put out a fire. People having a barbeque take a gas can to start the grill. Not a good look. You wanting to take away prohibitions to make America free is blood on your head. Again, you are the kid who was smoking oregano pin joints in High School and later became an expert on reefer.

Go find a PASTOR

Quick

You, me, and others could probably tell our PTSD horror stories, too, and how Jesus made short work of them the day He saved us. I was possessed by an evil spirit when I was fourteen, and then, for the next ten years of my life, and it all happened when and because, I was taking a legally prescribed anti-depressant that impacted the chemistry in my brain sufficient to make me numb and dumb enough not to care when it came around and invited itself in.

Yeah, talk about PTSD! Every symptom you can name, I had, every day of my life: racing, uncontrollable thoughts. Anxiety attacks. Panic attacks. Nervous breakdowns. Blackouts. Self-harm. Confusion. Memory loss. Suicidal and Homicidal tendencies. Nightmares. Insomnia. Hallucinations. Dissociative Disorder.

All the time, 24/7, for ten years, in some combination or another.

So, it's not that I don't sympathize or even empathize, because I do. I get it. I just don't agree with Aquila about the solution.

[1ofthechosen]

Originally Posted by votivesoul

You, me, and others could probably tell our PTSD horror stories, too, and how Jesus made short work of them the day He saved us. I was possessed by an evil spirit when I was fourteen, and then, for the next ten years of my life, and it all happened when and because, I was taking a legally prescribed anti-depressant that impacted the chemistry in my brain sufficient to make me numb and dumb enough not to care when it came around and invited itself in.

Yeah, talk about PTSD! Every symptom you can name, I had, every day of my life: racing, uncontrollable thoughts. Anxiety attacks. Panic attacks. Nervous breakdowns. Blackouts. Self-harm. Confusion. Memory loss. Suicidal and Homicidal tendencies. Nightmares. Insomnia. Hallucinations. Dissociative Disorder.

All the time, 24/7, for ten years, in some combination or another.

So, it's not that I don't sympathize or even empathize, because I do. I get it. I just don't agree with Aquila about the solution.

Thanks for your testimony Brother!!

[Evang.Benincasa]

Originally Posted by 1ofthechosen

Thanks for your testimony Brother!!