Fascinating thread! Somehow, I skipped it till today.
Some observations and questions from an outsider -- non-Apostolic, non-Pentecostal, neutral Oneness/Trinitarian (if that makes sense) -- if anyone's interested:
1. We say "God is good", "God cannot sin", etc. What does that really mean? If I were to do some of the things God is recorded as doing, or going to do, in the Bible, I would be thrown in jail and likely executed. (Before you say it, yes I know -- I am not God! I'm just asking what we mean when we say God is "good". Does it mean whatever He does is fine, no matter what it is, since He's God? Is there anything He might conceivably do that would actually not be "good"?)
E.g., what if I were to punish my child for something (anything!) by holding his hand a few inches over the flame of the gas range? How about for, say, a mere 60 seconds? The blistering and charring would be unthinkably horrible. The pain would be far more intense than anything most of us have ever experienced. His hand would never heal, and my life sentence in jail (or execution, even better) would be well deserved.
And yet God will burn me forever, just for not believing you OP guys??? Not 60 seconds, forever! Not just one hand, my entire body! And yet God is good and just. (Some here don't believe in eternal torture, just burning for a "while". Then annihilation. This is somewhat more tolerable, but not much!)
2. Did I say God is
just? So, He will punish those who choose to believe their parents and follow their religion their whole lives -- if that religion is "wrong"? That's
just? He will reward those who are lucky enough to hear
your message (the Apostolic-Pentecostal-Oneness message -- the
right message)
and believe it and obey it? He will punish those who hear it and don't accept it? (They "don't love truth", as many of you say.) He will punish those who hear Billy Graham's message and (oopsie!) believe it? He will punish the countless generations who have lived their entire lives, never hearing the
right message? Oh yeah, if they're "sincere", God will send an Apostolic minister to them. Uh huh. I guess then, by definition,
nobody in those countless generations was sincere.
3. Babies. They get a pass. Aborted fetuses get a pass. That's good. Glad to hear it. Now, tell me this: if a baby grows to adulthood, there is a good chance he/she will not choose to believe the only saving message (as you guys so fondly describe it), correct? So, it's something less than 100% certain they will make Heaven, correct? Let's say it's 50%. (Though it's really way,
way lower than that, I think you'll agree, especially counting the billions of non-OP parents.) So if you kill your children before they grow up, they will be in Heaven, 100% certain. If you do not kill your children, well, we're not so sure. 50/50 (or less). So tell me: how is it
not the most loving thing you could possibly do for your baby to kill it?! In fact, how is it
not the most horrible and hateful thing you could do to let it live to adulthood?!
Oh sure, train up a child etc. Well, I'm sorry, scripture notwithstanding, not all children accept the way they are trained. Some "depart from it", never to return to it! You are taking your chances, playing dice with your children's eternal life.
Disclaimer: I am not advocating killing your children! Do not say that I am! I am just asking if this heaven/hell/only-saving-message thing is really,
really what you believe, and if so, where is my logic faulty? PLEASE DO NOT KILL YOUR CHILDREN!! But do explain why you will not and why you should not!
BTW, the explanation that God says do not kill -- that doesn't cut it. If you are disobeying God and thereby risking your
own eternity in killing your child, so much the more noble and unselfish it is!
4. "God will judge, not I." OK fine, but His Word, according to the OP doctrine, does say what the fate of the lost will be, doesn't it? And everyone (again, according to OP) who does not obey
Acts 2:38 (and in the OP interpretation of it, of course) is lost. Is God a liar? No, that would not be "good" (see #1). So, ya die lost, ya burn. Right or wrong?
That's it for now. Can't wait to hear the accusations -- these are somehow "dishonest" questions, whatever that means. And the "answers" -- we don't understand some things, we just have to take it on faith. You have to know it with your heart, not your head. Can't wait. But maybe you can do better than that. I've never heard any better, but I'm listening. Go for it!
oloroid
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