What Are You Reading Currently, 2.0

[Apostolic1ness]

it kind of speaks to what i've been saying for a long time. That is that if it had not been for euopean colonizing even the USA would be a waste land of savages that killed each other for territory and in the centuries that the natives were here there was no civilization, no structure, no buildings no cultivation only roaming and tents there would have never been what is now modern civilization in the U.S. just like other third world countries.

[Aquila]

Originally Posted by Esaias

Amazing how reality conflicts with pravda, eh?

No, that's not what troubled me.

The colonization of the world was merely the expansion of earthly empire. Often, the methods and motives of such colonization was anything but "Christian". In fact, a thorough study of that period will also reveal that there were dissenting Christian voices who taught against the common methods and practices employed by these supposedly "Christian" empires. Much of this sentiment coalesced into the Abolitionist Movement in the United States, which was led by early Quakers and others.

First, the "Christianity" imported to these nations wasn't "biblical" Christianity. Second, the "Christianity" imported to these nations wasn't always "Christian" in its treatment of the people conquered. So, it wasn't so much Christianity that effected these societies as much as it was Imperial European culture.

In fact, these empires were the very same empires that persecuted various Christian groups who didn't line up with established "Christian orthodoxy". Many of which held beliefs similar to Apostolic Pentecostals today.

[Aquila]

Originally Posted by Evang.Benincasa

Does anyone even understand the truths that are in this post?

Are they "truths" or "opinions"?

[Scott Pitta]

Last book ?

Wings of Praise by William Booth-Clibborn. Looks like it was published around 1938. I had hoped it was earlier.

Is it a book of songs to be used in churches. All the lyrics were penned by William or his wife.

[Aquila]

Originally Posted by Apostolic1ness

it kind of speaks to what i've been saying for a long time. That is that if it had not been for euopean colonizing even the USA would be a waste land of savages that killed each other for territory and in the centuries that the natives were here there was no civilization, no structure, no buildings no cultivation only roaming and tents there would have never been what is now modern civilization in the U.S. just like other third world countries.

I think it depends upon how one defines being "civilized" and "civilization". Even our "civilized" society goes to war for spurious reasons relating to land, wealth, and the ability to access resources. And as these resources become more scarce, the likelihood of wars increase. Our culture is a warrior culture, just as theirs were. We glorify our soldiers, and tell their stories over and over to our people through movies. While we don't have tribal identity, we identify with patriotic nationalism, political party, denomination, race, etc. And we are just as primitive in that we believe our tribe is always right and other tribes are always wrong. We sacrifice our children, our youngest and brightest on the altars of war and abortion. We too can be barbaric and heartless in so many ways with regards to how we treat each other. We also still wage wars over the gods we worship today. So, I don't see much difference between us and them in these areas when I look at. Human nature appears to be exactly that, human nature.

Where I do see a significant difference is in relation to technology. It is often said that these peoples were "primitive" and that we are "advanced". And while I think it is obvious that we're advanced...I'm not so sure that they were all that "primitive" in the way we often think of it. In just over 200 years of having conquered the Americas we have built vast cities, highways, electrical grids, and air conditioned homes. We abandoned the horse for the automobile. The land is filled with all the luxuries we take for granted. We have become disconnected with the land. Most Americans don't even know how to properly start a fire without matches or a lighter. Most don't know how to hunt. And even knowing how to fish is becoming more and more rare. Most of us don't know how to properly build mud huts that are properly ventilated to prevent being smoked out, while providing cool shelter in summer and warmth in winter. Most don't know how to cultivate a garden, let alone how to identify various plants and fibers that can be used as medicines or in daily life. Most also don't know how to properly cut animal hides to provide adequate clothing. So, "advancement" has come with a cost. A dumbing down of how to live in harmony with nature. Many of you might be avid hunters, campers, and fishermen and know how to survive. But those of us who might know some of these things are in a growing minority. Now, combine this reality with the fact that our consumerism, pollution, waste, war, etc. makes our "advanced civilization" unsustainable. Should there be a collapse, many wouldn't know how to live without resorting to violence and looting.

But these "primitive" cultures had lived for millennia accumulating the knowledge and wisdom of their ancestors. Their ways never led to the amount of consumerism, pollution, waste, and dumbing down of natural knowledge that we see growing in our society.

What is more "advanced"? Being able to cut down the forest, produce necessary, plastics and materials, in order to build a suitable home with electricity to run air-conditioning and a furnace?

or...

Being able to build a series of connected mud huts for multiple families that were built in such a way as to provide ventilation (for fires), provide cool shelter in the summer, and a warm abode in the winter... all without a single volt of electricity?

Of course that is only one example. But examples like this cause me to pause and wonder... Who is more "civilized", really?

[votivesoul]

I finished Proverbs in the ESV, and am about half done with Ecclesiastes. Exodus for the NKJV. Finished Joshua in the NLT, too.

Still reading Dr. Heiser's The Unseen Realm. It's captured my attention as of late.

[Evang.Benincasa]

Originally Posted by votivesoul

I finished Proverbs in the ESV, and am about half done with Ecclesiastes. Exodus for the NKJV. Finished Joshua in the NLT, too.

Still reading Dr. Heiser's The Unseen Realm. It's captured my attention as of late.

How're you doing with the Reina Valera?

[votivesoul]

Originally Posted by Evang.Benincasa

How're you doing with the Reina Valera?

Man, I forgot all about that! I had been reading it at work during lunch periods, but was on a leave of absence for awhile, brought it home with me, and got caught up in everything else I've been reading, I forgot I was also making my way through. If memory serves, I am in 2 Corinthians still. Thanks for the reminder. Will have to get back on it!

[Evang.Benincasa]

Originally Posted by votivesoul

Man, I forgot all about that! I had been reading it at work during lunch periods, but was on a leave of absence for awhile, brought it home with me, and got caught up in everything else I've been reading, I forgot I was also making my way through. If memory serves, I am in 2 Corinthians still. Thanks for the reminder. Will have to get back on it!

[votivesoul]

Originally Posted by votivesoul

I finished Proverbs in the ESV, and am about half done with Ecclesiastes. Exodus for the NKJV. Finished Joshua in the NLT, too.

Still reading Dr. Heiser's The Unseen Realm. It's captured my attention as of late.

A head's up in case anyone decides to buy/read The Unseen Realm. Apart from the copious footnotes already in the book, Dr. Heiser also has a companion website with even more foot notation, because there just isn't room in the book to cover everything.

So, in order to fully get the message and understand the text, you have to read two books, so to speak, which is something I don't mind in the slightest, but to each their own. Might not be for everyone.