I have Left the UPC Church

[originalsecretplace]

Originally Posted by nathan_slatter

I would merely ask then if this question is a positive answer -- then all mature Christians are part of the five fold in some manner. Therefore the question becomes, why the hierarchy of anointing? I ask because I know some VERY MATURE Christians who are leaders -- even if they don't hold position.

... And I would meekly ask the quetion -- where is the unity of faith and why are some considered partof the five-fold ministry in one denomination and not in another since we are all supposed to be part of the same body (church)?

And also Does " Till we all come in the unity of the faith, and of the knowledge of the Son of God, unto a perfect man, unto the measure of the stature of the fulness of Christ:" mean that at some point a Chrisitian mature BEYOND needing to rely on the 5-foold ministry?

[mizpeh]

Originally Posted by nathan_slatter

I would merely ask then if this question is a positive answer -- then all mature Christians are part of the five fold in some manner. Therefore the question becomes, why the hierarchy of anointing? I ask because I know some VERY MATURE Christians who are leaders -- even if they don't hold position.

Perhaps I should have worded it differently...a mature Christian who has been given one of the five fold gifts of the ministry. The way I read what Coop wrote he seems to be saying you can't trust anyone.

BTW, I think an spiritual elder who isn't part of the five fold ministry can also give sound advice.

[Trouvere]

Sister Michlow,
You may not agree with all the pastor preaches but you have to be saved.
Committing spiritual suicide is not an option.Sometimes you have to just
stand and wait on God to deliver you or maybe ask yourself if there is
not another underlying problem going on with you that makes you feel
the way you do or respond to the preaching in the manner the way
you are? I ask myself this alot.My husband was without a job for about two
months.This weighed on me so heavily that nothing made me happy.
Think long and hard and have an option before you give up your lifeline.
I read where you said its been three years in the making.Have you
finally thrown in the towel and given up after three years?
I would post differently but I don't see where you are leaving one church
for another.I only see where you are staying home.Red lights are going off
and I hear a siren going.Its 911.I am going to really get to praying for you.
You need revival.

[Old Paths]

Originally Posted by Trouvere

You may not agree with all the pastor preaches but you have to be saved.
Committing spiritual suicide is not an option.Sometimes you have to just
stand and wait on God to deliver you or maybe ask yourself if there is
not another underlying problem going on with you that makes you feel
the way you do or respond to the preaching in the manner the way
you are? I ask myself this alot.My husband was without a job for about two
months.This weighed on me so heavily that nothing made me happy.
Think long and hard and have an option before you give up your lifeline.

Good advise.

[SDG]

I think what Mich mentioned earlier as one of her reasons for leaving and what Nate is also examining is a paradigm that forgets the priesthood of all saints ... all the functions are needed for the body to work well but there seems to be an inordinate focus on one or two ministries ...

[originalsecretplace]

Originally Posted by originalsecretplace

... And I would meekly ask the quetion -- where is the unity of faith and why are some considered partof the five-fold ministry in one denomination and not in another since we are all supposed to be part of the same body (church)?

And also Does " Till we all come in the unity of the faith, and of the knowledge of the Son of God, unto a perfect man, unto the measure of the stature of the fulness of Christ:" mean that at some point a Chrisitian mature BEYOND needing to rely on the 5-foold ministry?

Anyone have an opinion???

[Coonskinner]

Originally Posted by originalsecretplace

Anyone have an opinion???

We never mature to the point that we no longer need ministry.

[mizpeh]

Originally Posted by Daniel Alicea

I think what Mich mentioned earlier as one of her reasons for leaving and what Nate is also examining is a paradigm that forgets the priesthood of all saints ... all the functions are needed for the body to work well but there seems to be an inordinate focus on one or two ministries ...

The danger is not being connected to the body by forsaking the fellowship with other believers.

[Trouvere]

Originally Posted by Daniel Alicea

I think what Mich mentioned earlier as one of her reasons for leaving and what Nate is also examining is a paradigm that forgets the priesthood of all saints ... all the functions are needed for the body to work well but there seems to be an inordinate focus on one or two ministries ...

So what Daniel no church is perfact.She needs an option .I have read this beautiful persons writings for about three years now.She matters to me .I care if she goes to heaven or hell.
Watch what you post to her.You don't know what she is going through.Its not just fun and games and words.This is a real person with genuine trials.You have a church to attend that you feel feeds you.I have not seen her post this yet.
This is a forum not a church.People need flesh and blood contact with other saints who have the Holy Ghost to care about them.That is another good reason
to go to church regardless if its not the perfact church.

[nathan_slatter]

Originally Posted by Daniel Alicea

I think what Mich mentioned earlier as one of her reasons for leaving and what Nate is also examining is a paradigm that forgets the priesthood of all saints ... all the functions are needed for the body to work well but there seems to be an inordinate focus on one or two ministries ...

Exactly -- and for the record, I have never said at any time that there is no need for accountability -- or leadership -- any someone's life. I don't believe in degrading the positions of pastor (or whatever position is there) -- I do believe in elevating the saint, though... which many misconstrue as degrading the position of leadership.

Mich needs to find a group of people who have her best interests in mind and who will tell her the truth no matter what. The problem is that she hasn't found that group, yet. I've been lucky (I should say BLESSED) to have found, or have been sent, a solid group of people that I am submitted to -- I pray that Mich finds the same, if she hasn't already.