Why I Left the UPC

[Sister Alvear]

It seems like I remember that one of the humiliations of a conqueror was to shave or take off the beards of the men. Could some see if that is true or am I mistaken? Being a woman a Bible study on beards is not my cup of tea...ha...

[ThePastorsCoach]

You know I really like that Brother EPLEY! Every time I write EPLEY - I can hear his Dad's voice saying it "That's E-P-L-E-Y, Post Office Box 5022, Fort Lauderdale, Florida! What a voice!
Anyway - I highly respect him even though we disagree on some things.
"You can have a beard and go to heaven - just not from from my church!" ROFL! That is so funny and so true! LOL
Heaven - yes, we believe in it - you just can't get there from here! LOL

[Michael The Disciple]

Originally Posted by Sister Alvear

Do not cut the hair at the sides of your head or clip off the edges of your beard." (Leviticus 19:27)//so we know Jews had a beard...however I do understand we do not want to look like Hippies....I like what Brother Epley said (of course about men) you can have a beard and go to heaven but not from my church....
Culture plays a great part....

This is so strange. As a hippie who had long hair I believe I was influenced by the pictures of Jesus many people have in their homes and even their Bibles. I remember my Grandmother showing me a painting of Jesus and the Apostles when I was probably 6 or 7 years old and they all had long hair and beards.

So many people that grew long hair in the 60's and 70's were in my opinion actually looking back to what seemed like a more simplistic time. No one ever thought of Jesus as wearing a suit and tie!

If anything we were rebelling against the materialistic values of society. Against society that taught it was ok to get drunk but horrible to smoke pot. Society where Church was a building you went to where only the clean shaven suit wearing people were welcome.

Looking back sure the hippies were wrong. Yet they were no more lost than the the AVERAGE PERSON OF THE DAY who was not born again.

Also in the Jesus Movement of which I was a part I saw more of the real gifts of the Holy Spirit than I have ever seen among "Apostolic Churches". I was SO disappointed when I came into the Apostolic Movement. It was so carnal compared to what I was used to!

And YET having said that I know that certainly not every group of "Jesus Freaks" were as spiritual and zealous as the one I was with. And Im sure that somewhere out there there were no doubt Apostolic groups that were more concerned about souls than if a man had a beard or wore a watch.

I just get tired of hearing about the rebelious hippies being the reason Apostolics had to preach against beards.

How about the conservative politicians of that day with their suits and ties? Or the clean shaven Police officers who were on the take? Or buisnessmen who walked in greed?

Its so ridiculous. And to think Apostolic Churches have turned away what? Tens or hundreds of thousands of souls who were seeking Jesus Christ?

Because LIKE HIM they happened to have a beard!

[Amanah]

good point MTD . . . my mantra these days is "religion is messed up"

[TGBTG]

Originally Posted by Sister Alvear

Do not cut the hair at the sides of your head or clip off the edges of your beard." (Leviticus 19:27)//so we know Jews had a beard...however I do understand we do not want to look like Hippies....I like what Brother Epley said (of course about men) you can have a beard and go to heaven but not from my church....
Culture plays a great part....

...and herein lies the problem, the church is NOT for the pastor. The church is Christ's. If Christ says people with beards can get to heaven, why in the world would a "pastor" stand against Christ's word????

[Fiyahstarter]

Originally Posted by TGBTG

...and herein lies the problem, the church is NOT for the pastor. The church is Christ's. If Christ says people with beards can get to heaven, why in the world would a "pastor" stand against Christ's word????

[*AQuietPlace*]

Originally Posted by acjcpastor

Now, let me clarify myself before you all go nuts on me. I don’t shave to be effeminate, if I did, that would be sinful. On the other hand, while I feel full liberty in Christ to grow a beard, if I grew one just to be spiteful to my apostolic brethren, then I think that would be sinful as well.

While there remain a few jobs where a man can’t wear a beard (like an airline pilot because the oxygen mask must seal to his face in an emergency) very few interviewers today would discount a job applicant because of facial hair. They’d know that they could be facing a discrimination lawsuit over the issue.

We the church are fishing in a whole different pond than our brothers and sisters were a generation ago. Not only that, but the fish have evolved and they don’t bite that same bait like they used to. That same guy today who would sue a potential employer for discrimination isn’t going to just shave off his beard to conform because you’re the pastor and you say so. People today want truth and they want to see it in black and white. If you can explain being clean shaven to him from the Word, more power to ya. But I ain’t going there cause I read more reasons to have a beard than to shave it off. That’s just the facts.

In the 1950 and even 60’s most women wore dresses. I’d say that all of the little girls I went to 1st grade with wouldn’t have been caught dead having to wear pants like a boy to school. For many ladies of that era, putting on slacks was a bold and daring move. And for some, it meant having to have a sinful attitude in order to even consider doing such a thing. For the same reasons why the apostolic movement took a stand against beards on men, they took a stand against pants on ladies. It was associated, even in a worldly society as being out there on the edge and any good conservative knows you ain’t supposed to go there. It was associated with rebellion, plain and simple.

However, here we are in 2011 and it just isn’t that plain and simple anymore. Most little girls going to 1st grade today haven’t ever put on a dress, never mind owned one. Nobody in “the world” today thinks of a women in slacks as being edgy or rebellious or “out there.” But there remains a generation of Apostolic ladies who took a stand years ago, based on a reasonable conviction of the time. And the same is true about men who took a stand against growing a beard.

I think we all need to apply the principle of Romans chapter 14, especially verses 13-21 today. If you ask me, this is the main reason why many of our apostolic sisters haven’t given all there skirts to the Goodwill and started wearing slacks. Is it really worth creating a church split over? Can’t I honor my brother or sister’s conviction without throwing my liberties in their face?

I pray the apostolic movement will someday mature beyond its petty-mindedness. We really need to be more mindful of our own attitudes when we start flaunting our liberties without regard for the “if, ands, and whys” of other peoples convictions.

I’ve probably written too much already but this is the bottom line; It grieves me to know of so many people over the years that have been pushed away from truth because we’ve allowed our arrogant attitudes, so contrary to the teaching of the apostles, to prevail. I pray that these men and women who say, “because I’m the pastor and that’s why” without having any biblical basis, will one day wake up and realize that they are going to have to answer to God for the damages they’ve done.

Very good post.

[*AQuietPlace*]

Originally Posted by RandyWayne

Good post acjcpastor. I would add just another thought. The biggest reason people are not following lockstep anymore is the internet. Before the net everyone was there own little island, afraid to speak out but now they learn that thousands think as they do and perhaps they are not the ones automatically in the wrong simply because they question their pastor or the organization in general.

It is truly the light of truth being shined under the fridge, which hasn't been touched in years. Amazing what gets startled!

And this is one reason why some ultra-ultra conservatives preach against the internet.

[rgcraig]

Originally Posted by Charnock

I recently left the UPC and a lot of people have been asking me why.

Primarily, I left because it was a coat that no longer fit.

I left the organization because I no longer want to be identified as a minister whose main purpose was to preserve and protect tradition instead of preaching the Word of God.

I left because I felt like I was lying every time I signed the affirmation statement. I did not agree with many of the holiness standards written in the AOF, and was tired of justifying my disagreement by noting that hardly any ministers agree with everything written there. The knowledge that the majority of ministers sign the oath dishonestly did nothing to assuage my hypocrisy.

I left because I believed I gave more to the org than the org gave to me. There was no reciprocity.

I left because I felt the Lord leading me to leave. Leaving allows me to follow Him, and to preach what He tells me to, without any fear of marginalization or retribution at the hands of my "brothers."

A lot of prayer, counsel, and contemplation has gone into this decision.

Tension almost always accompanies transition. Although there is a sense of sadness involved in the exit, joy and excitement for the future overwhelms it.

I'm glad this is finished.

Following Him and not an organization. God bless you and your future!

[answers]

Congrats!!!! The UPCI is a failed system as are any other orgs or "fellowships". Churches fall prey to this as well when they develop a legal system which dictates what kind of relationship you can have with God based on ideas not within his Word.