Was it necessary to repeal DADT?

[Mr. Smith]

Originally Posted by DAII

I do think he owes you an apology.

I certainly don't mean to get stuck in the mud of name-calling and accusations, but I wanted to demonstrate to him how off-base he was and how far away he was from the core issue. I leaned on our friendship to try to reveal it, knowing he would back off. From there I would try to reinsert him into the discussion from a proper viewpoint, and try to break down all his religious talk. But alas, he didn't apologize and didn't back off.

Oh well, I tried.

It seems we have several conspiracy theorists who believe gays will take over the world if they're allowed to serve in the military.

True enough, I'm not crazy about the way Hollywood shoves homosexuality in our faces at times. But if we (The Church) want to change the world, we still do it with the gospel and not with laws, petitions, and ballot boxes. The cross is still as powerful as it was at its beginning moments but we rob it of its effectiveness when we return back to "The Law." And Paul said if we build again the things we destroyed, we make ourselves transgressors.

I fear that many in the standardized American Christian culture are relying much more on the law than the power of the gospel and are edging towards the transgression of trusting their rules more than the sacrifice of Christ.

[Baron1710]

Originally Posted by Truthseeker

Did they leave it up to the states?

Nope.

[DAII]

Originally Posted by Truthseeker

Did they leave it up to the states?

Yes, they declared father Abraham ... the patriarchs ... King David and Solomon as perverted miscreants worthy of brimstone and hell-fire.

[Truthseeker]

Originally Posted by Baron1710

Nope.

OK, so how come they can legislate how many wives a man can have but not same sex marriage??

[DAII]

Originally Posted by mr. Smith

i certainly don't mean to get stuck in the mud of name-calling and accusations, but i wanted to demonstrate to him how off-base he was and how far away he was from the core issue. I leaned on our friendship to try to reveal it, knowing he would back off. From there i would try to reinsert him into the discussion from a proper viewpoint, and try to break down all his religious talk. But alas, he didn't apologize and didn't back off.

Oh well, i tried.

It seems we have several conspiracy theorists who believe gays will take over the world if they're allowed to serve in the military.

True enough, i'm not crazy about the way hollywood shoves homosexuality in our faces at times. But if we (the church) want to change the world, we still do it with the gospel and not with laws, petitions, and ballot boxes. The cross is still as powerful as it was at its beginning moments but we rob it of its effectiveness when we return back to "the law." and paul said if we build again the things we destroyed, we make ourselves transgressors.

I fear that many in the standardized american christian culture are relying much more on the law than the power of the gospel and are edging towards the transgression of trusting their rules more than the sacrifice of christ.

glawry!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

[Truthseeker]

Originally Posted by DAII

Yes, they declared father Abraham ... the patriarchs ... King David and Solomon as perverted miscreants worthy of brimstone and hell-fire.

Better then Abraham and david getting married.

[Sabby]

Originally Posted by James Griffin

An equally valid equity and public policy would be made the other way.

If one state chooses to recognize incestuous marriage can it force the other forty nine?

As to the conclusion of the matter, I believe we both agree it will depend on the composition of the Supreme Court at the time.

By the way 5 inches of snow in New Bern, its beautiful !!

Congrats on the snow!

It's a multi-layered issue. For apostolics it is about sin, first and foremost. To be more exact, a practiced lifestyle that is sinful. This issue will not go away. It is a malady that we will have until Jesus Christ permanently and completely "rearranges" things. The church has not been the salt and light it should have been. We sat back, withdrew from culture in general (hold the fort 'til Jesus returns, etc) and expected the world to "get worse and worse" in a self-fulfilling way.

The military has always been the petrie dish for social experimentation and this isn't any different. I feel like an assumption is being made that since it has been repealed that "ALL HELL" is going to break loose in a debauched military unable to retrain itself. It is more structured than that. It will always attract the idealistist, traditionally patriotic young, and they will re-enlist because of its structured environment (unless they unionize like the Dutch).

Was it necessary to repeal it? DADT on its face is discriminatory. Another assumption that seems to be made on this thread is that someone that thinks DADT deserved a second look is a compromiser...when it is a moral, legal and social issue. Although I disapprove of its repeal on moral grounds, it is my opinion based upon how I feel about the lifestyle. Any american should be allowed to serve. There are many fornicating teens enlisting this very day. Should we disallow their enlistment because of their lifestyle? Do you think they will stop if the military said to? I don't think so. But they're not going to the parade field and conducting orgies, and neither are gays in the military. There are regs against unseemly behavior, and gays will continue to be subject to those regs just like the hetero private, sergeant or officer.

We're missing the point. It's an issue of culture. So now, what do we do in the church...Do we start attending school board meetings, get involved in public policy and if necessary conduct civil disobedience, or do we stay in our salt shakers?
I'm not on a rabbit trail here. The military only reflects (a conservative side of) society.

[Baron1710]

Originally Posted by Truthseeker

OK, so how come they can legislate how many wives a man can have but not same sex marriage??

They being who?

If your talking about the SC it is because they didn't legislate it, Congress did and they (SC) declared that it was indeed constitutional for them to regulate it.

"Polygamy has always been odious among the northern and western nations of Europe, and, until the establishment of the Mormon Church, was almost exclusively a feature of the life of Asiatic and of African people. At common law, the second marriage was always void, and from the earliest history of England polygamy has been treated as an offence against society...."

Reynolds v. US

[sandie]

Originally Posted by Mr. Smith

I certainly don't mean to get stuck in the mud of name-calling and accusations, but I wanted to demonstrate to him how off-base he was and how far away he was from the core issue. I leaned on our friendship to try to reveal it, knowing he would back off. From there I would try to reinsert him into the discussion from a proper viewpoint, and try to break down all his religious talk. But alas, he didn't apologize and didn't back off.

Oh well, I tried.

It seems we have several conspiracy theorists who believe gays will take over the world if they're allowed to serve in the military.

True enough, I'm not crazy about the way Hollywood shoves homosexuality in our faces at times. But if we (The Church) want to change the world, we still do it with the gospel and not with laws, petitions, and ballot boxes. The cross is still as powerful as it was at its beginning moments but we rob it of its effectiveness when we return back to "The Law." And Paul said if we build again the things we destroyed, we make ourselves transgressors.

I fear that many in the standardized American Christian culture are relying much more on the law than the power of the gospel and are edging towards the transgression of trusting their rules more than the sacrifice of Christ.

I was watching a movie last night...some actor said "oh, this is so gay" and the camera showed two men kissing very liberally and then smiling at the man who said it.
Yes, Hollywood shoves homosexuality in our faces, but I still feel we need to take a stand as Christians against this sin which God calls an abomination.
Since we're a representative republic, like you said; we have the right to make those stands even at the ballot box and within laws.
I'm thankful we legislate against murder and stealing and cheating, etc..
We need laws. And to have them doesn't negate the power of the Cross whatsovever, as if anything could.

Standing up for what others feel is a Christian principle shouldn't make other Christians call them names and say things like we fear homosexual people will take over the world and such.

I'm old enough to remember the debate before RvW. It sounded much like it does today. So many wanted to make room for other people's choices and allow decisions to be made without any lawful or godly input. That has led to the murder of over 40 million innocent babies who were made in the image of the God we worship.

I don't know where this slippery slope will end, but it won't end with the repeal of DADT.

I surely don't want to insult anyone, but I come down on a different side of the issue and I hope we all can be civil and respectful. I'm not a bigot, I'm not cold and un-feeling and I'd rather walk on glass then to cause anyone to stumble on their way to the Cross. To me, the bigger picture of this issue does just that.

peace

[Mr. Smith]

Originally Posted by sandie

I was watching a movie last night...some actor said "oh, this is so gay" and the camera showed two men kissing very liberally and then smiling at the man who said it.
Yes, Hollywood shoves homosexuality in our faces, but I still feel we need to take a stand as Christians against this sin which God calls an abomination.
Since we're a representative republic, like you said; we have the right to make those stands even at the ballot box and within laws.
I'm thankful we legislate against murder and stealing and cheating, etc..
We need laws. And to have them doesn't negate the power of the Cross whatsovever, as if anything could.

Standing up for what others feel is a Christian principle shouldn't make other Christians call them names and say things like we fear homosexual people will take over the world and such.

I'm old enough to remember the debate before RvW. It sounded much like it does today. So many wanted to make room for other people's choices and allow decisions to be made without any lawful or godly input. That has led to the murder of over 40 million innocent babies who were made in the image of the God we worship.

I don't know where this slippery slope will end, but it won't end with the repeal of DADT.

I surely don't want to insult anyone, but I come down on a different side of the issue and I hope we all can be civil and respectful. I'm not a bigot, I'm not cold and un-feeling and I'd rather walk on glass then to cause anyone to stumble on their way to the Cross. To me, the bigger picture of this issue does just that.

peace

If you, as an individual, want to vote your conscience and take a stand with who you vote for and won't vote for, then do so! But to make this a corporate movement of Christianity has NO biblical merit and to turn it into a "Cause of The Church" is a waste of effort that ultimately will not and cannot work. Law cannot win! Righteousness cannot be legislated!

As a pastor, my job is to preach the gospel, knowing that the gospel is the entirety of our power. So what if gays serve in the military or get married to one another? That doesn't impact The Mission of The Church one bit. And so what if we (The Church) succeed in keeping gays out of the military and keeping them from getting married? Did we solve homosexuality? Did people suddenly stop being gay?

Of course not. And if this nation sinks to the depths of allowing everything.....so what? What if Christianity becomes illegal? So what? It won't impact the mission of The Church!! Historically, The Church has never succeeded so much as when it was opposed the most. And that's even true in our current world! If we want The Gospel to be at its greatest in America, I wonder if possibly we should pray for the downturn of America so that we would realize our need of God?

So I'm not worried one bit about DADT or gay marriage or the legalization of marijuana. I'm only worried about my stewardship of the Gospel of Christ. THAT is the only thing that can change America and I will never depend on our courts or our president to do the job that WE should be doing.