Another SPLIT from the UPCI???

[Sam]

Originally Posted by Maple Leaf

...
I don't have a problem with tee shirts, shorts, or sandals in their place, but I hold too high a view of the gravity of the pulpit and the Word of God to wear them there.

I would feel as much like a goof behind the pulpit in a pair of shorts as I would at the beach with a long sleeved white shirt.

The church is informal.
There is no pulpit, just a lectern/music stand.

Whether suit and tie or tee shirt and shorts, would be personal preference and based on the formality level of the church. Some ministers wear robes, some clergy collars, some full suits and ties, it's all a matter of what you consider proper "platform or pulpit attire" or "proper clergy attire." I do not have any clergy collars. I do have a suit or two which fits and have worn them for funerals or other "formal" occasions. But, our church is informal. The only time I've seen our pastor in a suit and tie was if he was going to conduct a funeral in one of the local funeral homes. He has occasionally worn a tie on Sunday morning but I don't remember him wearing a suit on Sunday morning. I don't remember him wearing shorts on Sunday morning either but I've seen him in shorts at Saturday outreach or Wednesday Kids Church.

Our church web site is
http://www.hamiltondreamcenter.org/
Our pastor is a RHEMA graduate and is ordained through RHEMA.
He is also ordained through WME whose web site is
http://www.wmeinc.org/

I am not saying it is wrong to wear a suit or to wear a robe or to wear a clergy collar or to wear a tee shirt while handling the Word of the Lord from the platform. I'm saying it is a matter of personal preference and the expectation of the local church.

[CC1]

Originally Posted by Jermyn Davidson

So you are saying that if a person decides to not wear shorts (a specific standard or consecration) in order to get closer to God, that decision is not Bible based.


If that decision is not Bible based, how can it possibly get me closer to God to do so?

I am saying that I do not see anything in scripture that would relate to not wearing shorts or wearing shorts.

It would be like me saying I am thinking about not eating peas anymore to get closer to God. I don't particularly like or dislike peas so it would be no great loss to me to not eat them anymore however I like them enough to eat them occasionally. The bottom line is eating peas or not eating peas doesn't have anything to do with how close to God I am or get.

I guess if you love wearing shorts and you are thinking of giving them up as a "sacrifice" like the Roman Catholics give up things they like for Lent then it could make you feel closer to God. I just don't think God gives one whit whether your legs are in shorts or full length pants.

[oletime]

Originally Posted by Jermyn Davidson

Well I haven't formally committed this to God yet, honestly.

I'm only thinking about it right now-- and it has been a while since I have wore shorts in public anyway.


I don't want to be caught up in some vain practice of piety that has no value in the sight of God. I don't want to do something solely for the purpose of fitting in or whatever.

I do want to please God. I do want to get closer to God.

I remember when I was much closer to God, when I was stationed in Jacksonville, NC, I followed these standards (except when in military uniform) but I followed these standards out of obedience and compulsion-- not because I believed in them.

In fact, I hated them and thought it to be useless and phariseetical.

But I did them anyway and was a lot closer to God.


I want that walk with God back!

I want to supercede that place!!

I want to know the best way to get there from here.


I've fallen so low from that place to where I was and now I'm getting closer to Him and I just want to continue getting closer to Him.


God would sometimes (often) answer my prayers immediately when I was in Jacksonville, NC. (Often as in more often then than now for sure!)

Even though I did not lik much of the stuff that happened to me and others and the stuff I saw in general while at the church there, I learned how to pray there, I learned how to touch God there. I learned how to openly worship there.

In the flesh, I didn't like that church or Camp Lejeune or even Onclow County, NC!

But I love what God did in my life while I was there!
Those memories are priceless!
I want my walk with God to be better than that, today, and not just something I look back on and remember.

Maybe standards are the way to go for that to happen, but that doesn't make sense.

So I bring it here for discussion.
Maybe someone has been where I am right now and they can give Biblical advice.

the bible does say come out from among them and be ye seperate if we look like the world, talk like the world do everything they would do, have we made ourselves seperate? does the bible tell us not to smoke? no but it does say to him that knoweth to do right and doeth it not to him it is a sin. i think any doctor would tell you not to smoke its not healthy for you so its not right. no it probably doesnt make sense but it is a committment and so God will honor it. i would suppose the reason you didnt like rules in nc was because there were too many at camp lejeun, understandable, but here have to be rules if you will in life. even in the wildlife kingdom there are rules. if you violate them you will be eaten of course we are different. we are free moral agents simply because God doesnt want robots. he wants willing servants if we submit ourselves to a higher power both to a Godly bible believing pastor and in effect to God himself the rest just falls into place. we as humans hate rules no one wants to be told what to do , but when we do it willing it is a lifestyle ps if you only do it cause the pastor says you should shame on ya" ya gotta have the want to" or you wont, my pastor now and my dad when he was my pastor would say sometimes, do i have bible for what im about to tell you no but this is my consecration, ie sleeve lengths, dress apparel, hair styles etc.etc. by the way are we trying to draw attention us or to God [that can cover a whole host of things] and so i would like to ask you to join with me and lets see where this takes us. when you look at it like, that it sheds a whole different light on things. God Bless jd

[HopePreacher]

Originally Posted by Jermyn Davidson

Well I haven't formally committed this to God yet, honestly.
I don't want to be caught up in some vain practice of piety that has no value in the sight of God. I don't want to do something solely for the purpose of fitting in or whatever.

I do want to please God. I do want to get closer to God.

I remember when I was much closer to God, when I was stationed in Jacksonville, NC, I followed these standards (except when in military uniform) but I followed these standards out of obedience and compulsion-- not because I believed in them.

In fact, I hated them and thought it to be useless and phariseetical.

But I did them anyway and was a lot closer to God.


I want that walk with God back!

I want to supercede that place!!

I want to know the best way to get there from here.


I've fallen so low from that place to where I was and now I'm getting closer to Him and I just want to continue getting closer to Him.


God would sometimes (often) answer my prayers immediately when I was in Jacksonville, NC. (Often as in more often then than now for sure!)

Even though I did not lik much of the stuff that happened to me and others and the stuff I saw in general while at the church there, I learned how to pray there, I learned how to touch God there. I learned how to openly worship there.

In the flesh, I didn't like that church or Camp Lejeune or even Onclow County, NC!

But I love what God did in my life while I was there!
Those memories are priceless!
I want my walk with God to be better than that, today, and not just something I look back on and remember.

Maybe standards are the way to go for that to happen, but that doesn't make sense.

So I bring it here for discussion.
Maybe someone has been where I am right now and they can give Biblical advice.

BroJD - I appreciate your openness. I have many nostalgic memories of the day when I lived "the standard." I never resented having to live by the standards, even though I never saw the necessity of them. Because my heart was right I had a right relationship with God.

When I left the UPC I struggled for a while to find a place that was comfortable in my spirit. As I prayed through all of the issues I discovered that it wasn't the standard that gave me closeness to God it was the consecration of my heart and the surrender of my will.

Now, without someone else setting the standard form and just the word of God and the Holy Spirit, I am closer to God now than I was then. I have a more free flow of the anointing of God and I have seen (and continue to see) God do marvelous miracles.

Yes, I have preached in a short and t-shirt, but its been a while. I have a beard and yes, I go to movies.

My outward appearance has changed, but my standards have not. I still love God with all my heart and would whatever he convicts me to do whether others understand or not.

Don't let others dictate your consecrations, and don't be guided by fear or the desire to make it like it was. Let every consecration you make be from the heart in faith.

[tv1a]

Your problem with your walk with God is bigger than a pair of shorts or list of rules. I heard a preacher say he does his morning prayer and devotional in his underwear. (UPCI preacher)

When's the last time you went on a serious fast? Committed some EXTRA time in prayer? Intense Bible reading? That is where your relationship flourishes beyone a subjective dress code.

Don't confuse the subjective dress code with a relationship with God. That gets a lot of people into trouble.

Originally Posted by Jermyn Davidson

Well I haven't formally committed this to God yet, honestly.

I'm only thinking about it right now-- and it has been a while since I have wore shorts in public anyway.


I don't want to be caught up in some vain practice of piety that has no value in the sight of God. I don't want to do something solely for the purpose of fitting in or whatever.

I do want to please God. I do want to get closer to God.

I remember when I was much closer to God, when I was stationed in Jacksonville, NC, I followed these standards (except when in military uniform) but I followed these standards out of obedience and compulsion-- not because I believed in them.

In fact, I hated them and thought it to be useless and phariseetical.

But I did them anyway and was a lot closer to God.


I want that walk with God back!

I want to supercede that place!!

I want to know the best way to get there from here.


I've fallen so low from that place to where I was and now I'm getting closer to Him and I just want to continue getting closer to Him.


God would sometimes (often) answer my prayers immediately when I was in Jacksonville, NC. (Often as in more often then than now for sure!)

Even though I did not lik much of the stuff that happened to me and others and the stuff I saw in general while at the church there, I learned how to pray there, I learned how to touch God there. I learned how to openly worship there.

In the flesh, I didn't like that church or Camp Lejeune or even Onclow County, NC!

But I love what God did in my life while I was there!
Those memories are priceless!
I want my walk with God to be better than that, today, and not just something I look back on and remember.

Maybe standards are the way to go for that to happen, but that doesn't make sense.

So I bring it here for discussion.
Maybe someone has been where I am right now and they can give Biblical advice.

[berkeley]

JD,

Take wot tv1a has said into consideration.
BTW, where you're at today... I am there also.

[POWERUP]

I have always said that, if from my knee, to my crooked toes, turns a woman on. Then there is already a serious problem!!!!!!!!

Thought I would throw in my 2 cents about the shorts.

[Sam]

Originally Posted by POWERUP

I have always said that, if from my knee, to my crooked toes, turns a woman on. Then there is already a serious problem!!!!!!!!

Thought I would throw in my 2 cents about the shorts.

Years ago when not so much female flesh was visible, the glimpse of a "well turned ankle" was enough to turn some men on.

[Sept5SavedTeen]

Originally Posted by Jermyn Davidson

Well I haven't formally committed this to God yet, honestly.

I'm only thinking about it right now-- and it has been a while since I have wore shorts in public anyway.


I don't want to be caught up in some vain practice of piety that has no value in the sight of God. I don't want to do something solely for the purpose of fitting in or whatever.

I do want to please God. I do want to get closer to God.

I remember when I was much closer to God, when I was stationed in Jacksonville, NC, I followed these standards (except when in military uniform) but I followed these standards out of obedience and compulsion-- not because I believed in them.

In fact, I hated them and thought it to be useless and phariseetical.

But I did them anyway and was a lot closer to God.


I want that walk with God back!

I want to supercede that place!!

I want to know the best way to get there from here.


I've fallen so low from that place to where I was and now I'm getting closer to Him and I just want to continue getting closer to Him.


God would sometimes (often) answer my prayers immediately when I was in Jacksonville, NC. (Often as in more often then than now for sure!)

Even though I did not lik much of the stuff that happened to me and others and the stuff I saw in general while at the church there, I learned how to pray there, I learned how to touch God there. I learned how to openly worship there.

In the flesh, I didn't like that church or Camp Lejeune or even Onclow County, NC!

But I love what God did in my life while I was there!
Those memories are priceless!
I want my walk with God to be better than that, today, and not just something I look back on and remember.

Maybe standards are the way to go for that to happen, but that doesn't make sense.

So I bring it here for discussion.
Maybe someone has been where I am right now and they can give Biblical advice.

I lived by really conservative standards about a year ago, and when I first began to get rid of them it was sort of exciting and new, like I was starting to get to the heart of the matter on things, and not just being overly preoccupied with my elbows... Then there were a few bumps in the road where I second-guessed myself, and that did me no good, and it hindered my walk, and now I am trying to remember my walk when I first got saved, before all the standards. I don't know if getting saved for you was also the same time you got into "standards", so I don't know if you ever remember a time being saved without standards. The way I sort of saw it was that before, when I was all into standards, it was a way for me to cop out of dealing with some serious problems/weights/sins on the inside, because all that was important was the outside. Then I started going to an assembly (which does keep to modest dress but not "standards") that taught perfection, maturity, inward holiness, ect... My problems came to the surface, and I have dealt/am still dealing, with them, and I can't run behind standards or make more and more standards to cover myself, as Adam and Eve covered themselves with fig leaves...

-Bro. Alex

[Esther]

Originally Posted by oletime

the bible does say come out from among them and be ye seperate if we look like the world, talk like the world do everything they would do, have we made ourselves seperate? does the bible tell us not to smoke? no but it does say to him that knoweth to do right and doeth it not to him it is a sin. i think any doctor would tell you not to smoke its not healthy for you so its not right. no it probably doesnt make sense but it is a committment and so God will honor it. i would suppose the reason you didnt like rules in nc was because there were too many at camp lejeun, understandable, but here have to be rules if you will in life. even in the wildlife kingdom there are rules. if you violate them you will be eaten of course we are different. we are free moral agents simply because God doesnt want robots. he wants willing servants if we submit ourselves to a higher power both to a Godly bible believing pastor and in effect to God himself the rest just falls into place. we as humans hate rules no one wants to be told what to do , but when we do it willing it is a lifestyle ps if you only do it cause the pastor says you should shame on ya" ya gotta have the want to" or you wont, my pastor now and my dad when he was my pastor would say sometimes, do i have bible for what im about to tell you no but this is my consecration, ie sleeve lengths, dress apparel, hair styles etc.etc. by the way are we trying to draw attention us or to God [that can cover a whole host of things] and so i would like to ask you to join with me and lets see where this takes us. when you look at it like, that it sheds a whole different light on things. God Bless jd

I see the organization picking and choosing on this. The world drives cars and eats at resturants, why does the church not draw the line there?

Being separate from the world is NOT about dress so much as it is about attitutudes. JMO