Does no one accept responsibility any more?

[Ron]

Originally Posted by Grasshopper

The church can barely pay it's own electric bills. Here's the deal....the Church's mission is to PREACH and TEACH. The Church should be a VOICE in this fallen world for morality, justice, and compassion. A perfect example of this is Tommy Douglas from Canada. He was a devout Baptist minister who ran for office and preached that all of Canadian society had a responsibility to one another. It was this man, a Baptist minister, who drafted the first provincial health care system to cover all Canadians in his province and taught Christian principles to the entire nation by example in public policy. Soon provinces throughout Canada began passing their own systems and eventually Canada had a national system that attempts to cover all. It's not perfect...any Canadian will tell you that...but the vast majority of Canadians would gladly take their system over ours.

Rev. Tommy Douglas was a world changer, because he was an advocate of the struggling and Christian voice in national policy.

Ron, you're Canadian...how do you feel about this?

Welll, for Canada it seems to work.

The US will have to work out it's own Healthy plan.

However, are system is not as Socialized as some think.

I still pay $108 a month in premiums.

[nathan_slatter]

When it comes to social issues the question always has to go back to this:

Do we band-aid the problem?

OR

Do we fix the problem?

Any sort of "health-plan" the government provides is merely going to be a band-aid. The problem is the exorbitant health care costs -- some of which is un-necessary. I know of local doctors who have delivered babies for nothing, just to help the families. Though the family still had to pay for hospitalization and such.

I work in health care and know that one company that provides medical equipment charges outrageous prices for them -- the problem is that there is no real competition for these prices. A server to run the machines run 30,000 to more than 10 times that amount -- and it is proprietary. You can't run the same software on any other server -- even if the same operating system is on it. Actually you can but if you want support (which is also around 1000 an hour, conservatively) you have to leave it on a Dell server that this company provides -- a server that would cost, at the most, 3000 to purchase. It is an essential monopoly.

So the answer isn't better health care plans provided by a government that has a hard time doing anything correctly -- especially this administration -- rather, the answer is to find out why health care is so costly and work to alleviate those things. Broaden the choices one has available by giving the people more choices. Force these companies to work in competition -- no price fixing. And enforce these things. Take away their shield of protection found behind the walls of corporatism and force them to appease the public or meet their demise.

[Rico]

Originally Posted by Ron

Welll, for Canada it seems to work.

The US will have to work out it's own Healthy plan.

However, are system is not as Socialized as some think.

I still pay $108 a month in premiums.

Isn't access an issue in Canada, Bro.? This is what I have heard, anyway. I've heard that it can take a long time to get in to see a doctor for some illnesses. I have also heard that there aren't as many treatment options in the Canadian health system.

[Cindy]

Originally Posted by DividedThigh

well just remember cindy you brighten my day, with a smile,every time i see your pics, god bless you,dt

Thanks DT. You know this reminds me of that old adage, some people ain't worth killin. Ammo is expensive ya know.

[Rico]

Originally Posted by nathan_slatter

When it comes to social issues the question always has to go back to this:

Do we band-aid the problem?

OR

Do we fix the problem?

Any sort of "health-plan" the government provides is merely going to be a band-aid. The problem is the exorbitant health care costs -- some of which is un-necessary. I know of local doctors who have delivered babies for nothing, just to help the families. Though the family still had to pay for hospitalization and such.

I work in health care and know that one company that provides medical equipment charges outrageous prices for them -- the problem is that there is no real competition for these prices. A server to run the machines run 30,000 to more than 10 times that amount -- and it is proprietary. You can't run the same software on any other server -- even if the same operating system is on it. Actually you can but if you want support (which is also around 1000 an hour, conservatively) you have to leave it on a Dell server that this company provides -- a server that would cost, at the most, 3000 to purchase. It is an essential monopoly.

So the answer isn't better health care plans provided by a government that has a hard time doing anything correctly -- especially this administration -- rather, the answer is to find out why health care is so costly and work to alleviate those things. Broaden the choices one has available by giving the people more choices. Force these companies to work in competition -- no price fixing. And enforce these things. Take away their shield of protection found behind the walls of corporatism and force them to appease the public or meet their demise.

Another factor in high health care costs in America is the paperwork. There is no standardization among insurers, so it creates huge amounts of paperwork for hospitals, doctors, care centers, etc., to get paid. They have to hire people just to handle nothing but the paperwork because there is so much of it and can vary so much from insurer to insurer.

Originally Posted by Tiberius Pantera

Once again. No one is suggesting that there arent issues with medical coverage in America.

we are however suggesting that Nationalizing healthcare is a triple stupid idea.

Only crybabies and morons want that.

That's why the Democrats are proposing a market driven system through private insurance companies.

Originally Posted by Baron1710

Interpretation - Every socialist I know loves socialism.

No...everyone who has suffered or lost a loved one in this current system due to denial of needed coverage advocates some form of expansive coverage for all Americans. Most proposals in the US are market driven through private insurers, more akin to what we see in France and Germany as opposed to the socialist system of Canada.

You need to do more homework on this subject bro.

[nathan_slatter]

Originally Posted by Grasshopper

The church can barely pay it's own electric bills. Here's the deal....the Church's mission is to PREACH and TEACH. The Church should be a VOICE in this fallen world for morality, justice, and compassion.

That is a singular part of what a church is to do. We are also to provide for the poor, widows, orphans, and other such issues. A voice. the church is to be a voice... give me a break. The church is to be the hands and feet of Christ to the world. Voice without action is hypocrisy -- and action doesn't mean to force someone else to do what we are called to do. Just because people holler and scream about "No works!" doesn't mean that we should not provide for our fellow man. WE not an entity that is so misguided and incapable of doing so.

I have the responsibility to provide for my fellow man -- the government's job is to provide a stable dollar and encourage TRUE free markets -- not some quasi-freemarket that only hurt and is manipulative of the market.

[Tiberius Pantera]

Originally Posted by Ron

Welll, for Canada it seems to work.

The US will have to work out it's own Healthy plan.

However, are system is not as Socialized as some think.

I still pay $108 a month in premiums.

LOL! that premium is paid basically to the state or a company controled by the state.

what do you pay in taxes on top of that?

Originally Posted by Ron

Welll, for Canada it seems to work.

The US will have to work out it's own Healthy plan.

However, are system is not as Socialized as some think.

I still pay $108 a month in premiums.

Wow. I know a pastor friend who pays over $700 a month in premiums. So essentially you keep $592 more of your own money than my pastor friend in the U.S.? Are those lower premiums negotiated by the government to ensure you get lower group rates?