IF Tyndale obeyed the gospel by repenting, being baptized in Jesus name, and received the Holy Ghost, and lived being led by the spirit, then he is saved according to scriptures. If he did not, then I do not believe he made the city.
For anyone that cannot accept the above, I would say you probably do not really believe that Acts 2:38-40 is our response to the gospel message, and is not necessary for salvation.
I'd say I think it's difficult to see him having been saved also, however only God is qualified to judge.
For example, men like Tyndale didn't stand against Acts 2:38, they just misunderstood it. Surely Tyndale believed in one God, however he was most likely taught the Trinitarian "mystery". Most of your average Trinitarians however appear to believe in Oneness as Bernard pointed out in his book The Oneness of God. Tyndale most likely believed in repentance from sin and that water baptism was necessary for salvation. However Tyndale was probably subject to the prevailing tradition of his day and baptized in traditional fashion. We don’t know what kind of depth his prayer life may have had. However we know that many men experienced deep “ecstasy” with ecstatic weeping, moaning, and unintelligible sobbing. Many of these “ecstatic” experiences were most likely Holy Ghost baptisms though they didn’t know it as we do or use the terms we use today (remember for most the Bible wasn’t something they could just read whenever they liked, nor were they allowed to interpret it without a priest’s guidance). So it could be argued that Tyndale did obey Acts 2:38…however, he obeyed it imperfectly due to tradition and the prevailing institutional church of his day.
If Tyndale was a man who merely counted himself to be a believer, being un-baptized in any fashion, and void of any spiritual baptism of the Holy Ghost…I’d say it’s nearly a sure bet he didn’t make it. However, if a man has repented of sin, been water baptized, and received the gift of the Holy Ghost (no matter how imperfect their understanding or implementation) I’d say they stand a chance at Heaven because God can have mercy on imperfect understanding as one seeks to obey the Word as best as they can. Ultimately God alone is the judge.
Again I will present a passage of Scripture nobody has addressed….
Luke 12:47-48
And that servant, which knew his lord’s will, and prepared not himself, neither did according to his will, shall be beaten with many stripes. But he that knew not, and did commit things worthy of stripes, shall be beaten with few stripes. For unto whomsoever much is given, of him shall be much required: and to whom men have committed much, of him they will ask the more.
In the Judgment there is the possibility that men like Tyndale, who obeyed God’s Word as best as they understood it, will be judged to a lesser degree than those who had known the truth and rejected it.
Heaven isn’t a Spiritual Communistic place. There are degrees of reward and appointment in Heaven.
So with men like Tyndale I’d say it’s best not to judge, but rather allow God to judge the heart.
Thoughts?
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"For I know the plans I have for you, declares the LORD, plans for wholeness and not for evil, to give you a future and a hope." Jeremiah 29:11 (English Standard Version)
I'd say I think it's difficult to see him having been saved also, however only God is qualified to judge.
For example, men like Tyndale didn't stand against Acts 2:38, they just misunderstood it. Surely Tyndale believed in one God, however he was most likely taught the Trinitarian "mystery". Most of your average Trinitarians however appear to believe in Oneness as Bernard pointed out in his book The Oneness of God. Tyndale most likely believed in repentance from sin and that water baptism was necessary for salvation. However Tyndale was probably subject to the prevailing tradition of his day and baptized in traditional fashion. We don’t know what kind of depth his prayer life may have had. However we know that many men experienced deep “ecstasy” with ecstatic weeping, moaning, and unintelligible sobbing. Many of these “ecstatic” experiences were most likely Holy Ghost baptisms though they didn’t know it as we do or use the terms we use today (remember for most the Bible wasn’t something they could just read whenever they liked, nor were they allowed to interpret it without a priest’s guidance). So it could be argued that Tyndale did obey Acts 2:38…however, he obeyed it imperfectly due to tradition and the prevailing institutional church of his day.
If Tyndale was a man who merely counted himself to be a believer, being un-baptized in any fashion, and void of any spiritual baptism of the Holy Ghost…I’d say it’s nearly a sure bet he didn’t make it. However, if a man has repented of sin, been water baptized, and received the gift of the Holy Ghost (no matter how imperfect their understanding or implementation) I’d say they stand a chance at Heaven because God can have mercy on imperfect understanding as one seeks to obey the Word as best as they can.
Again I will present a passage of Scripture nobody has addressed….
Luke 12:47-48
And that servant, which knew his lord’s will, and prepared not himself, neither did according to his will, shall be beaten with many stripes. But he that knew not, and did commit things worthy of stripes, shall be beaten with few stripes. For unto whomsoever much is given, of him shall be much required: and to whom men have committed much, of him they will ask the more.
In the Judgment there is the possibility that men like Tyndale, who obeyed God’s Word as best as they understood it, will be judged to a lesser degree than those who had known the truth and rejected it.
Heaven isn’t a Spiritual Communistic place. There are degrees of reward and appointment in Heaven.
So with men like Tyndale I’d say it’s best not to judge, but rather allow God to judge the heart.
Thoughts?
Mat 5:6 Blessed [are] they which do hunger and thirst after righteousness: for they shall be filled.
I would disagree with you because of this verse. I do not believe that anyone can truly hunger after God and not come to the Apostolic truth we hold dear. Somewhere along the way, they stop hungering, or accept what is around them, or something else. No one was preaching the holy ghost when Parham left his students to find out what was the biblical pattern for the holy ghost. No one was preaching Jesus name baptism when the one man (can't remember his name) got up and started the "new issue". These men hungered for more of God, and God continued to fill them with revelation.
Mat 5:6 Blessed [are] they which do hunger and thirst after righteousness: for they shall be filled.
I would disagree with you because of this verse. I do not believe that anyone can truly hunger after God and not come to the Apostolic truth we hold dear. Somewhere along the way, they stop hungering, or accept what is around them, or something else. No one was preaching the holy ghost when Parham left his students to find out what was the biblical pattern for the holy ghost. No one was preaching Jesus name baptism when the one man (can't remember his name) got up and started the "new issue". These men hungered for more of God, and God continued to fill them with revelation.
Do we trust our interpretation of the Scriptures more than God’s judgment when it comes to judgment of the soul?
Or…
Do we trust God’s judgment more than we trust our interpretation of Scripture, regardless of how “correct” we feel our view is?
Truth be told…while I firmly believe that the Apostolic movement is the closest to expressing what the Apostles originally taught, I’m not so proud of my religious understanding that I can’t consider that I may be mistaken. I have “faith” that this way is right…and I leave the rest to God.
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"For I know the plans I have for you, declares the LORD, plans for wholeness and not for evil, to give you a future and a hope." Jeremiah 29:11 (English Standard Version)
Do we trust our interpretation of the Scriptures more than God’s judgment when it comes to judgment of the soul?
Or…
Do we trust God’s judgment more than we trust our interpretation of Scripture, regardless of how “correct” we feel our view is?
Truth be told…while I firmly believe that the Apostolic movement is the closest to expressing what the Apostles originally taught, I’m not so proud of my religious understanding that I can’t consider that I may be mistaken. I have “faith” that this way is right…and I leave the rest to God.
If I was not completely sold on the doctrine of salvation that I espouse, I would not hold it as the only method of salvation. Could I be wrong? If I had any doubts as to being correct, I would not claim to be Apostolic ever again.
So your answer is, yes, I believe I can trust what I believe the bible states to be the measure of obtaining salvation.
as a general rule it is best not to judge anyone, let god do it, it is his job not ours, that attitude always hurts others and gets us into trouble with god, dt
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A product of a pentecostal raisin, I am a hard man, just ask my children
as a general rule it is best not to judge anyone, let god do it, it is his job not ours, that attitude always hurts others and gets us into trouble with god, dt
Every time the gospel is preached, someone is being judged. Every time sin is exposed scripturally, someone is being judged. The Word will hit its mark.
Every time the gospel is preached, someone is being judged. Every time sin is exposed scripturally, someone is being judged. The Word will hit its mark.
in my opinion preaching the word and the like is god doing it through his message, and spirit, i am referring to the preponderence so many seem to have with judging others, from the past, or present bro, dt i leave that in the hands of god,
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A product of a pentecostal raisin, I am a hard man, just ask my children
Mat 5:6 Blessed [are] they which do hunger and thirst after righteousness: for they shall be filled.
I would disagree with you because of this verse. I do not believe that anyone can truly hunger after God and not come to the Apostolic truth we hold dear. Somewhere along the way, they stop hungering, or accept what is around them, or something else. No one was preaching the holy ghost when Parham left his students to find out what was the biblical pattern for the holy ghost. No one was preaching Jesus name baptism when the one man (can't remember his name) got up and started the "new issue". These men hungered for more of God, and God continued to fill them with revelation.
You bring up an excellent point, those that hunger and thirst after “righteousness” will be filled. But as Luke 12:47-48 illustrates those that hunger and thirst after righteousness are judged justly, they that know the master’s will and didn’t prepare themselves are judged more harshly than those who didn’t know their master’s will and did things worthy of punishment. The texts have to “agree” not contradict. So we have two servants in Christ’s teaching. Both are servants (Christians) and evidently thirst after their master’s desire. One discovered their master’s desire and refused to obey…the other didn’t understand their master’s desire and did things worthy of punishment…and so his master had greater mercy upon him. This is a just master.
Which of you would punish their child for something they never understood though that child was doing their best according to what they understood? Which of you would disown him? Is this the kind of Heavenly Father we have?
We serve a God far richer in mercy than we are dear friends.
I think it’s a valid question.
It’s also important to note that men like Parham and McAlister who pressed into Apostolic Pentecostal truths approached this subject as I am. They saw themselves as the next step in God’s restoration of his church. They even continued to preach in non-Apostolic and non-Pentecostal pulpits and churches when permitted.
I feel the REAL issue is inherited bitterness. You see, a number of Trinitarians saw no issue with Oneness teaching. In the beginning the Assemblies of God was composed of both Trinitarian and Oneness Pentecostals, and we even preached conferences together. However there were quite a few that feared for their own positions and were afraid to challenge tradition as more traditional saints began to murmur. When these Trinitarian Pentecostals used their religious authority to condemn Oneness Pentecostals it divided churches, families, and friends. The pain and rejection was so great both sides began to condemn the other to Hell. Soon the ousted Oneness brethren assembled and formed various Apostolic organizations and soon the UPCI was formed. This bitterness and sense of rejection has remained with us to this day. The pioneers of Oneness Pentecost didn’t see themselves as the only ones with a chance to be saved. They saw themselves as the next great step in God’s restoration of the Church. Every great denomination began as a movement. But when they began to believe they had a monopoly on truth and salvation they froze and became just another denomination going no deeper. We used to be a “revival movement” seeking to revive dead and traditional Christianity wherever we went. Today we’ve become so important in our own eyes we’ve begun to think we have a monopoly on truth and salvation.
No doubt in my mind that the Apostles preached repentance, water baptism in Jesus name, and the gift of the Holy Ghost. However, I refrain from judgment and leave the judgment of devout Christians who didn’t have this understanding in the hands of God. For God alone is qualified to judge.
If you’re a non-Apostolic Christian reading this post, I want you to know that God has MORE for you. I also want you to realize that the Apostles taught repentance, water baptism in Jesus name, and the infilling of the Holy Ghost as taught in Acts 2:28. Any attempt to serve God outside of what the Apostles taught is adherence to a tradition. Traditions cannot save…in fact they hinder us from being all God desires us to be. Tradition can blind us from deeper understandings and experiences in God. I wouldn’t want to gamble with my soul for the sake of tradition or a denomination. I’d want all God intended me to have. Pray and seek the Lord about attending a local Apostolic assembly where you can obey Acts 2:38. Then you can experience the fullness of New Testament salvation that the Apostles originally preached on the day of Pentecost. All other ground is sinking sand.
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"For I know the plans I have for you, declares the LORD, plans for wholeness and not for evil, to give you a future and a hope." Jeremiah 29:11 (English Standard Version)
post was an attempt to show IF there was something wrong with it He would have let us know long time ago. Not during this generation of deception.
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