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  #261  
Old 05-01-2008, 02:48 PM
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Re: 8 miles of truckers

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Originally Posted by ChristopherHall View Post
Also a third year's tithe was gathered from the entire nation to feed the poor, widows, orphans, and strangers. That was God's command...is that socialistic?

! I AM FOR IT!!!

From hence forth and forever, let it be known that I am willing to pay the biblical tax of 3.33% of my income for social programs!


Jolly good Chris! Bully for you! you have come up with the exact perscription!
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  #262  
Old 05-01-2008, 02:48 PM
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Re: 8 miles of truckers

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Originally Posted by ChristopherHall View Post
Also a third year's tithe was gathered from the entire nation to feed the poor, widows, orphans, and strangers. That was God's command...is that socialistic?
It would be great to see these type of principles in action in the church.

But it is one thing to put these things to work on a voluntary basis in a church setting and a totally different thing to have these things put to work under a forced taxation by a secular government.

You are comparing apples to band saws.
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  #263  
Old 05-01-2008, 03:01 PM
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Re: 8 miles of truckers

Quote:
Originally Posted by Ferd View Post

! I AM FOR IT!!!

From hence forth and forever, let it be known that I am willing to pay the biblical tax of 3.33% of my income for social programs!


Jolly good Chris! Bully for you! you have come up with the exact perscription!
Don't forget the edges and corners of your crop. Oh...that means the larger your crop...the larger your required to contribute. LOL

But none of this answers my question....these are social laws of ancient Israelite society as drafted by God. Does this make God a socialist? Is this a Left Wing Levitical agenda? LOL I think it's an interesting question.
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  #264  
Old 05-01-2008, 03:03 PM
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Re: 8 miles of truckers

Quote:
Originally Posted by ChristopherHall View Post
Don't forget the edges and corners of your crop. Oh...that means the larger your crop...the larger your required to contribute. LOL

But none of this answers my question....these are social laws of ancient Israelite society as drafted by God. Does this make God a socialist? Is this a Left Wing Levitical agenda? LOL I think it's an interesting question.
Yes, it is, but it has absolutely nothing to do with truckers!
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  #265  
Old 05-01-2008, 03:05 PM
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Re: 8 miles of truckers

Quote:
Originally Posted by ChristopherHall View Post
Don't forget the edges and corners of your crop. Oh...that means the larger your crop...the larger your required to contribute. LOL

But none of this answers my question....these are social laws of ancient Israelite society as drafted by God. Does this make God a socialist? Is this a Left Wing Levitical agenda? LOL I think it's an interesting question.
Since you, apparently, missed my post I will repeat it...

It would be great to see these type of principles in action in the church.

But it is one thing to put these things to work on a voluntary basis in a church setting and a totally different thing to have these things put to work under a forced taxation by a secular government.

You are comparing apples to band saws.
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  #266  
Old 05-01-2008, 03:09 PM
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Re: 8 miles of truckers

Quote:
Originally Posted by ChristopherHall View Post
Don't forget the edges and corners of your crop. Oh...that means the larger your crop...the larger your required to contribute. LOL

But none of this answers my question....these are social laws of ancient Israelite society as drafted by God. Does this make God a socialist? Is this a Left Wing Levitical agenda? LOL I think it's an interesting question.
Chris, you just made the conservitive argument.


a small field has small corners. a large field has large corners. both are the same percentage of the field....

liberals want large field owners to not harvest half the field.

And Chris, simply because we have opposed your ideas on what we should do for the poor doesnt mean we want them dead. that is another democrat montra that is patently false.

but clearly you see the vast difference between the biblical command that 3.33% be used for the poor and the rampant insanity that lives in the political left of this country. Not tax is enough.

As I said, i am for your biblical plan. the poor need help. 3.33% should take care of their needs!
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  #267  
Old 05-01-2008, 03:26 PM
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Re: 8 miles of truckers

Quote:
Originally Posted by Digging4Truth View Post
It would be great to see these type of principles in action in the church.

But it is one thing to put these things to work on a voluntary basis in a church setting and a totally different thing to have these things put to work under a forced taxation by a secular government.

You are comparing apples to band saws.
Amen. It would be beautiful to see more churches supporting the poor and needy.

I contend that it’s not comparing apples to “band saws”. You see, the Law of Moses was the Law of the nation of ancient Israel. When you are reading the five books of Moses…especially the Law of Moses, you’re reading an ancient national Constitution. The gleaning laws and tithing laws were not voluntary. The tithe is essentially an ancient form of taxation. Israel had three different tithes: a tithe to care for the temple; a tithe to provide for the Levite; and a tithe to take care of those in need. This essentially added up to well over 10% of the Israelite harvest. Please note…Israel was also taxed a flat head tax on all males over 20 to protect the nation. Not to mention legal requirement to allow the poor to glean the corners, edges, and dropped harvest of their fields. These were essentially ancient social entitlements. We see similar laws among other ancient agricultural societies. God’s Law addressed everything for morality (Ten Commandments) to housing code (Leviticus 14:33-57; Deuteronomy 22:8). Oh…and the King would often impose “burdens” upon the citizens of ancient Israel for special projects. All of this could consume over 50% of the people’s harvest. Call burdens “pork”. LOL

Interestingly gleaning rights and the poor tithe weren’t voluntary. The magistrates and tribal leaders would hear the grievance of the poor in the gates and were expected to uphold the Law of Moses. However, in the time of Amos and Malachi the land owners and the farmers had made dirty deals with the magistrates, allowing them to ignore the “right of the poor” under the Law of Moses. Amos condemns this practice with strong warnings of judgment against the nation. When the poor and needy are left to languish…God promises to destroy the nation’s prosperity. In the time of Malachi the priests and the officials were hoarding the tithe for their own gain and refused to fill the storehouse to feed the poor and the needy. This greedy hoarding caused the whole nation to begin withholding the tithe…after all…it wasn’t being put into the storehouse to ensure that there was “meat” in God’s house for the needy. Malachi condemns them for robbing God because they neglected the poor tithe. The whole nation was neglecting to bring all of the tithe (meaning they were only tithing the Levitical and Temple tithes) into the temple. God shows that the tithe neglected was the poor tithe by illustrating that this was so that there might be “meat” in his house. The “meat” wasn’t for the priests…it was for the poor. Essentially this was robbing the poor and thereby robbing God. Jesus illustrates this well when He states that when we neglect to care for the least of these we have done so unto him. Robbing the poor by neglecting to provide meat in the storehouse is therefore as Malachi put it…robbing God.
Isaiah rebukes the lawmakers in Isaiah 10….

Isaiah 10:1-4
{10:1} Woe unto them that decree unrighteous decrees,
and that write grievousness [which] they have prescribed;
{10:2} To turn aside the needy from judgment, and to take
away the right from the poor of my people, that widows
may be their prey, and [that] they may rob the fatherless!
{10:3} And what will ye do in the day of visitation, and in
the desolation [which] shall come from far? to whom will
ye flee for help? and where will ye leave your glory? {10:4}
Without me they shall bow down under the prisoners, and
they shall fall under the slain. For all this his anger is not
turned away, but his hand [is] stretched out still.

Bro…we often “religionize” the Old Testament. We have to realize that this is a chronicle of God’s dealing with a Nation after having drafted her laws and set her standards. There was no separation of church and state in Israel. The storehouse was the national social safety net for the nation’s most needy.

Ya dig, Digging?
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  #268  
Old 05-01-2008, 07:20 PM
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Digging4Truth Digging4Truth is offline
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Re: 8 miles of truckers

Quote:
Originally Posted by ChristopherHall View Post
Amen. It would be beautiful to see more churches supporting the poor and needy.

I contend that it’s not comparing apples to “band saws”. You see, the Law of Moses was the Law of the nation of ancient Israel. When you are reading the five books of Moses…especially the Law of Moses, you’re reading an ancient national Constitution. The gleaning laws and tithing laws were not voluntary. The tithe is essentially an ancient form of taxation. Israel had three different tithes: a tithe to care for the temple; a tithe to provide for the Levite; and a tithe to take care of those in need. This essentially added up to well over 10% of the Israelite harvest. Please note…Israel was also taxed a flat head tax on all males over 20 to protect the nation. Not to mention legal requirement to allow the poor to glean the corners, edges, and dropped harvest of their fields. These were essentially ancient social entitlements. We see similar laws among other ancient agricultural societies. God’s Law addressed everything for morality (Ten Commandments) to housing code (Leviticus 14:33-57; Deuteronomy 22:8). Oh…and the King would often impose “burdens” upon the citizens of ancient Israel for special projects. All of this could consume over 50% of the people’s harvest. Call burdens “pork”. LOL

Interestingly gleaning rights and the poor tithe weren’t voluntary. The magistrates and tribal leaders would hear the grievance of the poor in the gates and were expected to uphold the Law of Moses. However, in the time of Amos and Malachi the land owners and the farmers had made dirty deals with the magistrates, allowing them to ignore the “right of the poor” under the Law of Moses. Amos condemns this practice with strong warnings of judgment against the nation. When the poor and needy are left to languish…God promises to destroy the nation’s prosperity. In the time of Malachi the priests and the officials were hoarding the tithe for their own gain and refused to fill the storehouse to feed the poor and the needy. This greedy hoarding caused the whole nation to begin withholding the tithe…after all…it wasn’t being put into the storehouse to ensure that there was “meat” in God’s house for the needy. Malachi condemns them for robbing God because they neglected the poor tithe. The whole nation was neglecting to bring all of the tithe (meaning they were only tithing the Levitical and Temple tithes) into the temple. God shows that the tithe neglected was the poor tithe by illustrating that this was so that there might be “meat” in his house. The “meat” wasn’t for the priests…it was for the poor. Essentially this was robbing the poor and thereby robbing God. Jesus illustrates this well when He states that when we neglect to care for the least of these we have done so unto him. Robbing the poor by neglecting to provide meat in the storehouse is therefore as Malachi put it…robbing God.
Isaiah rebukes the lawmakers in Isaiah 10….

Isaiah 10:1-4
{10:1} Woe unto them that decree unrighteous decrees,
and that write grievousness [which] they have prescribed;
{10:2} To turn aside the needy from judgment, and to take
away the right from the poor of my people, that widows
may be their prey, and [that] they may rob the fatherless!
{10:3} And what will ye do in the day of visitation, and in
the desolation [which] shall come from far? to whom will
ye flee for help? and where will ye leave your glory? {10:4}
Without me they shall bow down under the prisoners, and
they shall fall under the slain. For all this his anger is not
turned away, but his hand [is] stretched out still.

Bro…we often “religionize” the Old Testament. We have to realize that this is a chronicle of God’s dealing with a Nation after having drafted her laws and set her standards. There was no separation of church and state in Israel. The storehouse was the national social safety net for the nation’s most needy.

Ya dig, Digging?
You missed one of my words...

Secular government.

I don't think that it is good stewardship or a faithful fulfillment of my christianity to allow a secular (and increasingly Godless) government tax me to do my God's work.

When the government does it the government becomes the source.

The source should be the Body of Christ.
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  #269  
Old 05-01-2008, 09:33 PM
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ChristopherHall ChristopherHall is offline
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Re: 8 miles of truckers

Quote:
Originally Posted by Digging4Truth View Post
You missed one of my words...

Secular government.

I don't think that it is good stewardship or a faithful fulfillment of my christianity to allow a secular (and increasingly Godless) government tax me to do my God's work.

When the government does it the government becomes the source.

The source should be the Body of Christ.
But could it be said that our secular government is increasingly Godless because we aren't affecting it by calling it to greater Christian ethics? For example we decry legalized abortion. We still advocate Pro-Life/family policies for the most part. Why neglect this?

But none of that addresses my original question. With poor tithe, gleaning rights, usury restrictions, and land distribution laws...would God's national philosophy be free market capitalist or lean more toward an agrarian socialism?
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  #270  
Old 05-01-2008, 09:36 PM
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Re: 8 miles of truckers

Quote:
Originally Posted by ChristopherHall View Post
Don't forget the edges and corners of your crop. Oh...that means the larger your crop...the larger your required to contribute. LOL

But none of this answers my question....these are social laws of ancient Israelite society as drafted by God. Does this make God a socialist? Is this a Left Wing Levitical agenda? LOL I think it's an interesting question.
Corners and edges plan would never work. If they were required to pick it up themselves they would pull a muscle and sue you!
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