Bott 2020

[n david]

Originally Posted by Pressing-On

His point was that he came to BOTT later, younger and didn’t feel he should deliver this message of unity, but felt compelled by God to deliver it.

I heard that part. This is after that.

Originally Posted by Pressing-On

I am sure we know of the competitiveness and jealousy in the body, between ministers and saints. That is all he is talking about.

I don't believe it was mere competitiveness or jealousy, and it's not between ministers and saints. It's between ministers -- the "giants."

27:52 He mentions how can we be one if you keep asking us to choose sides.

At 29:15 he starts saying he may not be qualified, but he's compelled. He's wrestled with this for several months. It's not his comfort zone, preference, choice or style of ministry; but Jesus wouldn't release him. He says there's the elephant in the apostolic church and it's that some gifted, anointed, bigger than life, giant leaders don't even like each other. He continues that we're all supposed to squeeze around this elephant at conferences, smile politely when one takes a verbal jab or cheap shot at the other. We're supposed to consider it a normal thing when one openly criticizes the other in a blog or mock with a hurtful meme or use nasty nicknames. We're supposed to look the other way when both show up in a room and you can cut the tension with a knife; and when they come dangerously close to preaching against one another.

This is specific as to what the elephant is, and his mention of struggling recently with it made me wonder what "giant" ministers are in a war causing people to have to choose sides, while making public comments, etc about the other.

[Evang.Benincasa]

Originally Posted by n david

I heard that part. This is after that.



I don't believe it was mere competitiveness or jealousy, and it's not between ministers and saints. It's between ministers -- the "giants."

27:52 He mentions how can we be one if you keep asking us to choose sides.

At 29:15 he starts saying he may not be qualified, but he's compelled. He's wrestled with this for several months. It's not his comfort zone, preference, choice or style of ministry; but Jesus wouldn't release him. He says there's the elephant in the apostolic church and it's that some gifted, anointed, bigger than life, giant leaders don't even like each other. He continues that we're all supposed to squeeze around this elephant at conferences, smile politely when one takes a verbal jab or cheap shot at the other. We're supposed to consider it a normal thing when one openly criticizes the other in a blog or mock with a hurtful meme or use nasty nicknames. We're supposed to look the other way when both show up in a room and you can cut the tension with a knife; and when they come dangerously close to preaching against one another.

This is specific as to what the elephant is, and his mention of struggling recently with it made me wonder what "giant" ministers are in a war causing people to have to choose sides, while making public comments, etc about the other.

Gang mentality is in everything from the PTA to the CIA. We think that just because a group wears the same colored socks that they are all buddies. We naively believe this especially in religion. Gee Haw Witness leadership have sweet fellowship, but if you ever spoke with Ray Franz he would of told you that there was no love lost when he got the left boot of fellowship. Everyone has issues in every group. Hence the reason why churches split, organizations have power struggles. The LDS vs the FLDS, the Conference SDA vs the Independent SDA. The Sedevacantist and The Roman Catholic church. Even all the way back to the Great Schism, people in their carnal religious mind can't get it together. You will know my students for the love they have for one another. Well that love fest is when we gravitate to like minds, not just doctrine. Just like winning souls, it isn't done with a screaming street preacher and sandwich board sign. Real converts are done through sacrificial friendship. When I was a child my best of friends were made through getting into a fist fight on the playground. As I got older I could be disagreeable with my brothers as well as disagreeing. But we always kept the main thing the main thing. We loved each other. Michael the Disciple I disagree with him, and make it well known, But if he was surrounded by Trinitarians I wouldn't let him catch a beating. Even though he believes that Jesus was a pre-created space suit for God. While we may disagree among ourselves we wouldn't (or shouldn't) let an outsider rip up anyone of us. People get the wrong idea of unity. It isn't always lonely walks on the beach, sweet love messages and bless me clubs. It is John Mark and Shaul Paul having it out at a radioactive level. Peter having Paul go full blast in his face in front of MeeMaw, and Uncle Thibodaux, and the rest of the fishing crew. But, when the dust settles we are all still loving each other. Not all wee weee wee all the way home. Or puppied down, or revengeful looking for our brother to fail, and doing the dance of joy when it happens. No, we may bang heads together, but after we are done we are all brothers. I may give Tithemommy a hard time, but if he needed my help I hope I would be able to help him. I have made some very cool friends, brothers, and some mean others. Yet, exception from those who were obviously sick in the ecclesiastical head, there are brothers in our movement who care about people as much as Truth.

[Pressing-On]

Originally Posted by n david

I heard that part. This is after that.



I don't believe it was mere competitiveness or jealousy, and it's not between ministers and saints. It's between ministers -- the "giants."

27:52 He mentions how can we be one if you keep asking us to choose sides.

At 29:15 he starts saying he may not be qualified, but he's compelled. He's wrestled with this for several months. It's not his comfort zone, preference, choice or style of ministry; but Jesus wouldn't release him. He says there's the elephant in the apostolic church and it's that some gifted, anointed, bigger than life, giant leaders don't even like each other. He continues that we're all supposed to squeeze around this elephant at conferences, smile politely when one takes a verbal jab or cheap shot at the other. We're supposed to consider it a normal thing when one openly criticizes the other in a blog or mock with a hurtful meme or use nasty nicknames. We're supposed to look the other way when both show up in a room and you can cut the tension with a knife; and when they come dangerously close to preaching against one another.

This is specific as to what the elephant is, and his mention of struggling recently with it made me wonder what "giant" ministers are in a war causing people to have to choose sides, while making public comments, etc about the other.

Okay. Well, I don’t know and if I did, I sure wouldn’t discuss it here.

[Evang.Benincasa]

Originally Posted by Pressing-On

Okay. Well, I don’t know and if I did, I sure wouldn’t discuss it here.

That goes without saying.

[Nicodemus1968]

Originally Posted by Evang.Benincasa

Gang mentality is in everything from the PTA to the CIA. We think that just because a group wears the same colored socks that they are all buddies. We naively believe this especially in religion. Gee Haw Witness leadership have sweet fellowship, but if you ever spoke with Ray Franz he would of told you that there was no love lost when he got the left boot of fellowship. Everyone has issues in every group. Hence the reason why churches split, organizations have power struggles. The LDS vs the FLDS, the Conference SDA vs the Independent SDA. The Sedevacantist and The Roman Catholic church. Even all the way back to the Great Schism, people in their carnal religious mind can't get it together. You will know my students for the love they have for one another. Well that love fest is when we gravitate to like minds, not just doctrine. Just like winning souls, it isn't done with a screaming street preacher and sandwich board sign. Real converts are done through sacrificial friendship. When I was a child my best of friends were made through getting into a fist fight on the playground. As I got older I could be disagreeable with my brothers as well as disagreeing. But we always kept the main thing the main thing. We loved each other. Michael the Disciple I disagree with him, and make it well known, But if he was surrounded by Trinitarians I wouldn't let him catch a beating. Even though he believes that Jesus was a pre-created space suit for God. While we may disagree among ourselves we wouldn't (or shouldn't) let an outsider rip up anyone of us. People get the wrong idea of unity. It isn't always lonely walks on the beach, sweet love messages and bless me clubs. It is John Mark and Shaul Paul having it out at a radioactive level. Peter having Paul go full blast in his face in front of MeeMaw, and Uncle Thibodaux, and the rest of the fishing crew. But, when the dust settles we are all still loving each other. Not all wee weee wee all the way home. Or puppied down, or revengeful looking for our brother to fail, and doing the dance of joy when it happens. No, we may bang heads together, but after we are done we are all brothers. I may give Tithemommy a hard time, but if he needed my help I hope I would be able to help him. I have made some very cool friends, brothers, and some mean others. Yet, exception from those who were obviously sick in the ecclesiastical head, there are brothers in our movement who care about people as much as Truth.

Sad

[Barb]

Originally Posted by n david

I'd like to see the forum myself instead of believing the version given here. No offense meant, but I've been on the wrong end of taking someone's account of a message then after listening to it myself finding that it was not at all like what was stated.

Originally Posted by Nicodemus1968

Ive tried looking for it, I cant find it. The women that spoke of her depression issue is the wife of Pastor Micheal Williams. Bro. Williams was the moderator of the Panel. If you find it please post it.

Yesterday morning I spoke with one of the elders from our church who was there. I told him about the discussion here, and he told me his impression of that forum was nothing like what we have heard... in his opinion.

He said he is going to loan me the DVD so I may judge it for myself...

One more thing re the song... the elder said that one would have had to be in that service to understand why Brother Mangun asked Sister Mangun to sing it...

I know that still won't fit with the opinions of those who were not present or who may have any argument with the song, but I trust the judgment of the elder.

[consapente89]

I would find it difficult trusting the judgment of anyone attending BOTT...

[hometown guy]

Originally Posted by consapente89

I would find it difficult trusting the judgment of anyone attending BOTT...

[Nicodemus1968]

Originally Posted by Barb

Yesterday morning I spoke with one of the elders from our church who was there. I told him about the discussion here, and he told me his impression of that forum was nothing like what we have heard... in his opinion.

He said he is going to loan me the DVD so I may judge it for myself...

One more thing re the song... the elder said that one would have had to be in that service to understand why Brother Mangun asked Sister Mangun to sing it...

I know that still won't fit with the opinions of those who were not present or who may have any argument with the song, but I trust the judgment of the elder.

Once you have the dvd if there is a way to post the entire discussion, please do.

[Nicodemus1968]

Originally Posted by consapente89

I would find it difficult trusting the judgment of anyone attending BOTT...

Believe this was last years conference.
Evangelist (I know) and his wife were so proud to have Sis. Vesta Mangun prayed over them and pass the mantle to them (whatever that means). His wife is gunho on her newly found “ministry”. That’s why it’s ok to sing a worldly song, or to have a discussion where one sister confesses she took meds for her depression. Because preachers/saints don’t believe words mean anything. Say what you will it’s ok, if you say something untoward just blame your human spirit.