Water baptism, can you agree with this statement?

[SDG]

Originally Posted by BrotherEastman

If you hug me, I'll know that you love me. If you say you love me then I can only go by what you say. (from the abundance of the heart, the mouth speaks) You're a good guy Dan, even if we don't always see eye to eye.

Judas betrayed Jesus w/ a kiss.

[Nahum]

Originally Posted by Pastor Poster

Anything that is a command is salvational. That is, if you believe disobedience is sin and and all. Hopefully you haven't changed your mind on that as well?

Further, the question as to when the blood is applied is not the issue here. The real issue IS obedience to the Apostolic commands given by Peter, witnessed (and not objected to) by the other Apostles, and confirmed by Holy Ghost outpouring.

Originally Posted by Daniel Alicea

The real issue is the presentation - as to what our obedience signifies ... PP...

No one has ever argued the proper response to the Gospel ... we are examining what each step means.

Some feel their obedience causes the New Birth ... while others believe it is a result of the NB.

The trouble is, that is not the way you have framed the discussion. You have never stated the proper response is found in Acts 2:38 (to my knowledge). Instead, you choose to push a full response that is limited to repentance.

BTW, I have a little bit of a problem with your continued labeling of myself and others as three-steppers. There are truly only two steps a new believer makes - repentance and baptism. Obedience to those two commands is our responsibility. The outpouring of the Spirit is GOD's responsibility.

I cannot stress enough that the message of Pentecost is an imperative, not a request. The men asked "what shall we do?" Peter responded "repent and be baptized' and then added FOR the remission of sins.

Key word is for.

There is no remission without repentance and baptism.

Period.

[SDG]

Okay ... PP is a two stepper.

[deltaguitar]

Originally Posted by Pastor Poster

The trouble is, that is not the way you have framed the discussion. You have never stated the proper response is found in Acts 2:38 (to my knowledge). Instead, you choose to push a full response that is limited to repentance.

BTW, I have a little bit of a problem with your continued labeling of myself and others as three-steppers. There are truly only two steps a new believer makes - repentance and baptism. Obedience to those two commands is our responsibility. The outpouring of the Spirit is GOD's responsibility.


Period.

What about these folks who have a hard time receiving the Baptism of the Holy Ghost? Was God just waiting around until they prayed hard enough to be able to receive his gift?????? The baptism of the Holy Ghost is a free gift and it is up to US to receive it. I have always thought that his spirit will fill a willing person. Therefore, it is a step for us.

[mizpeh]

Originally Posted by bishoph

It is interesting to me that some would say baptism is essential only because it is commanded, but not because it has any salvational merit. That is simply double talk to me!

If this is the case then we must be, at least in part stating that baptism is merely symbolic of an inward work of grace. Which I find hard to substantiate in scripture. The OT was a school master to bring us to Christ, and it is filled with types and shadows, or symbolism. When the New Covenant was enacted, the types/shadows and symbolisms were fulfilled not just re-symbolized.

Baptism for a believer is a likeness of the burial of Christ. I'd call that symbolism. BUT baptism is more than just a likeness of a Christ's burial, but there is an actual spiritual work that happens in baptism...Romans 6:6... knowing this, that our old self was crucified with Him, in order that our body of sin might be done away with, Baptism is a work of the Spirit in remitting sin AND it is done in symbolic likeness with Christ's burial.

http://www.answers.com/topic/symbolism?cat=health

[Nahum]

Originally Posted by deltaguitar

What about these folks who have a hard time receiving the Baptism of the Holy Ghost? Was God just waiting around until they prayed hard enough to be able to receive his gift?????? The baptism of the Holy Ghost is a free gift and it is up to US to receive it. I have always thought that his spirit will fill a willing person. Therefore, it is a step for us.

The gift is not a step for us. How can we MAKE God's Spirit do anything?

No, the gift is a promise, otherwise God is a liar.

A big problem nowadays is a lack of real conviction and repentance.

[Nahum]

Receiving the Holy Ghost is dependant upon our human positioning.

[mizpeh]

Originally Posted by Pastor Poster

Receiving the Holy Ghost is dependant upon human positioning.

[Nahum]

Originally Posted by mizpeh

God isn't gonna pour His Spirit out on an unrepentant heart.

[deltaguitar]

Originally Posted by Pastor Poster

The gift is not a step for us. How can we MAKE God's Spirit do anything?

No, the gift is a promise, otherwise God is a liar.

A big problem nowadays is a lack of real conviction and repentance.

I don't know. I guess [B]receiving the holy ghost[B] would be our step. I mean I remember working my you know what off to get the holy ghost and if that ain't a step I don't know what is. It was a lot easier to get dunked under for two seconds.


Also, how do we really know who has real conviction and real repentance or who has really received the holy ghost? We all see people who get the holy ghost but don't seem to live for God after the initial infilling. It seems like somewhere in the bible it says you would know them that have the holy spirit by the works that they do.

Maybe a real way to know if someone is saved is by their change., i.e. repentance.

:sshhh