Yes you are, because I am saying something you are not. I am probably just not presenting it clearly enough.
I am looking form Gods eyes on this. Remember God calls those things which be not as though they were. Healing is already accomplished by Gods eye's. We can note Peter stating that "with his stripes you WERE healed". The healing was given by God at the time the stripes were applied, yet we as individually do not get that healing until we by faith accept it as ours. I see forgiveness the same. It is made available for all at the offering of Christs blood upon the mercy seat, meaning God has already done the work. Yet we still have lost with us, because for it to take effect in our lives personally, we must accept the work accomplished by faith.
The other issue is that those that cannot forgive are not free of the deed that was done against them. I have known people that spend their whole lives playing the victim game, and never was able to live, simply because they were unable to forgive what someone did to them, and move on. It never mattered if the offender asked a 1000 times. They became a victim of their own unforgiveness. It allowed bitterness to spring up, and they became critical of anything and everything.
Jesus was very plain when he said :
Luk 6:37 Judge not, and ye shall not be judged: condemn not, and ye shall not be condemned: forgive, and ye shall be forgiven. :
It does not say to "forgive if they ask you, and ye shall be forgiven". The commandment is to simply forgive.
Excellent post. The Lord's Prayer also tells us to pray that God 'forgive us our trespasses, as we forgive those who trespass against us', but doesn't state that the trespasser has to ask us first.
__________________
I've gone and done it now! I'm on Facebook!!!
Yes you are, because I am saying something you are not. I am probably just not presenting it clearly enough.
I am looking form Gods eyes on this. Remember God calls those things which be not as though they were. Healing is already accomplished by Gods eye's. We can note Peter stating that "with his stripes you WERE healed". The healing was given by God at the time the stripes were applied, yet we as individually do not get that healing until we by faith accept it as ours. I see forgiveness the same. It is made available for all at the offering of Christs blood upon the mercy seat, meaning God has already done the work. Yet we still have lost with us, because for it to take effect in our lives personally, we must accept the work accomplished by faith.
The other issue is that those that cannot forgive are not free of the deed that was done against them. I have known people that spend their whole lives playing the victim game, and never was able to live, simply because they were unable to forgive what someone did to them, and move on. It never mattered if the offender asked a 1000 times. They became a victim of their own unforgiveness. It allowed bitterness to spring up, and they became critical of anything and everything.
Jesus was very plain when he said :
Luk 6:37 Judge not, and ye shall not be judged: condemn not, and ye shall not be condemned: forgive, and ye shall be forgiven. :
It does not say to "forgive if they ask you, and ye shall be forgiven". The commandment is to simply forgive.
Ok. The first thing I would like to address is the looking at it through God's eyes comment. When I read a comment like that I take it to mean you are saying I am not looking at it through God's eyes. I have already posted scriptures that give us instructions on what to do when someone trespasses against us. I will take the Word of God over anyone's opinion any day of the week.
I have already said that the issue I am dealing with is whether or not we are required to forgive someone before they ask, not if it is a good idea. I agree that it is a good idea, but I do not see where it is a requirement. Hopefully, you will see where I am coming from on this. Of course we have the option of just forgiving someone without them asking us to do so, and there is scripture in favor of doing that. But there is also scripture that gives specific instructions on how to handle situations like that that say nothing about us being required to forgive the offender, unless they ask of course. The scriptures give us more than one option.
I hope we are clear on this now because I am getting the feeling that the conversation between us is starting to escalate a bit, and I like you and don't want to fuss with you over this. I am not saying you are wrong in just forgiving someone without them asking you to. But I am not wrong either in waiting for someone to ask me before I forgive them.
Ok. The first thing I would like to address is the looking at it through God's eyes comment. When I read a comment like that I take it to mean you are saying I am not looking at it through God's eyes. I have already posted scriptures that give us instructions on what to do when someone trespasses against us. I will take the Word of God over anyone's opinion any day of the week.
I have already said that the issue I am dealing with is whether or not we are required to forgive someone before they ask, not if it is a good idea. I agree that it is a good idea, but I do not see where it is a requirement. Hopefully, you will see where I am coming from on this. Of course we have the option of just forgiving someone without them asking us to do so, and there is scripture in favor of doing that. But there is also scripture that gives specific instructions on how to handle situations like that that say nothing about us being required to forgive the offender, unless they ask of course. The scriptures give us more than one option.
I hope we are clear on this now because I am getting the feeling that the conversation between us is starting to escalate a bit, and I like you and don't want to fuss with you over this. I am not saying you are wrong in just forgiving someone without them asking you to. But I am not wrong either in waiting for someone to ask me before I forgive them.
I have yet to see scripture that states we aren't required to forgive an offender unless they ask. The scriptures you posted say nothing in that regard, even in implication.
__________________
I've gone and done it now! I'm on Facebook!!!
That is what I am trying to say. You got it. Maybe Rico will.
Brother, I understand perfectly what you are saying. I do not have a problem with comprehension. I got it the first time you mentioned it. I don't agree with you that you were already forgiven before you asked, though. If that isn't what you are saying then it sure sounds like it. Forgiveness was available to you, but your sin still counted against you until you asked for forgiveness. You can not be forgiven and in sin at the same time. It's either one or the other.
Ok. The first thing I would like to address is the looking at it through God's eyes comment. When I read a comment like that I take it to mean you are saying I am not looking at it through God's eyes. I have already posted scriptures that give us instructions on what to do when someone trespasses against us. I will take the Word of God over anyone's opinion any day of the week.
I have already said that the issue I am dealing with is whether or not we are required to forgive someone before they ask, not if it is a good idea. I agree that it is a good idea, but I do not see where it is a requirement. Hopefully, you will see where I am coming from on this. Of course we have the option of just forgiving someone without them asking us to do so, and there is scripture in favor of doing that. But there is also scripture that gives specific instructions on how to handle situations like that that say nothing about us being required to forgive the offender, unless they ask of course. The scriptures give us more than one option.
I hope we are clear on this now because I am getting the feeling that the conversation between us is starting to escalate a bit, and I like you and don't want to fuss with you over this. I am not saying you are wrong in just forgiving someone without them asking you to. But I am not wrong either in waiting for someone to ask me before I forgive them.
Rico,
first of all I have not been upset or anything over our conversation, so if my posts came across that way I am sorry. As far as I am concerned we have been having a conversation over the lunch table. We have not even raised our voices. That is from my point of view, and hopefully yours too. We are just each trying to get our point across to the other.
So I forgive you, even though you didn't ask.
No really, I believe the last verse I posted was a command to forgive, and does not stipulate that it only is to be done after being asked. How do you see it??
Luk 6:37 Judge not, and ye shall not be judged: condemn not, and ye shall not be condemned: forgive, and ye shall be forgiven. :
1jo 1:9 If we confess our sins, he is faithful and just to forgive us our sins, and to cleanse us from all unrighteousness
How about that? It says IF WE CONFESS OUR SINS HE IS FAITHFUL AND JUST TO FORGIVE, not Your sins are already forgiven because He is faithful, just, and has already forgiven them.
first of all I have not been upset or anything over our conversation, so if my posts came across that way I am sorry. As far as I am concerned we have been having a conversation over the lunch table. We have not even raised our voices. That is from my point of view, and hopefully yours too. We are just each trying to get our point across to the other.
So I forgive you, even though you didn't ask.
No really, I believe the last verse I posted was a command to forgive, and does not stipulate that it only is to be done after being asked. How do you see it??
Luk 6:37 Judge not, and ye shall not be judged: condemn not, and ye shall not be condemned: forgive, and ye shall be forgiven. :
Ok. Lemme take a deep breath for a minute then, 'cause I thought something was going on that wasn't.
Ok. I forgive you for giving me the wrong impression, without you even asking. How's that?
As for the scripture you posted, I don't see it as a carte blance command to automatically forgive someone, without them asking for it first. I know we have that option, and am not arguing against that option. I am merely saying that, when I put it with other scriptures, I see it as commanding us to forgive when we are asked to do so.
Brother, I understand perfectly what you are saying. I do not have a problem with comprehension. I got it the first time you mentioned it. I don't agree with you that you were already forgiven before you asked, though. If that isn't what you are saying then it sure sounds like it. Forgiveness was available to you, but your sin still counted against you until you asked for forgiveness. You can not be forgiven and in sin at the same time. It's either one or the other.
first, I would blame my inability to post clearly enough instead of blaming you for not comprehending what i am trying to say.
IF forgiveness is available..................this alone states that God has already "in his heart" put the deed aside, so as to offer reconciliation. I personaly do not believe one can even offer forgiveness unless it is already accomplished within their heart.
I have never said that forgiveness is completed prior to our repentance. It is an exchange, but Gods part happened on Calvary. God basically says, "Here is my forgiveness. Now who wants it!"
first, I would blame my inability to post clearly enough instead of blaming you for not comprehending what i am trying to say.
IF forgiveness is available..................this alone states that God has already "in his heart" put the deed aside, so as to offer reconciliation. I personaly do not believe one can even offer forgiveness unless it is already accomplished within their heart.
I have never said that forgiveness is completed prior to our repentance. It is an exchange, but Gods part happened on Calvary. God basically says, "Here is my forgiveness. Now who wants it!"
It's the same with all His promises! He's offered it to us, but until we accept, it's not ours.
__________________
I've gone and done it now! I'm on Facebook!!!
Linear Mode
