BY THIS STANDARD-Greg L. Bahnsen

[Esaias]

Originally Posted by Aquila

Clearly the dumbing down of America has resulted in the rightwing conservative movement.

On this, we agree. Because the "rightwing conservative movement" is just another wing of the national Uniparty movement. It's one great big ole turkey buzzard.

Thankfully, I'm not part of any such thing.

Of course, to people like yourself, anyone who is not a flaming communist is a one man "right wing death squad".

[Aquila]

Originally Posted by Esaias

On this, we agree. Because the "rightwing conservative movement" is just another wing of the national Uniparty movement. It's one great big ole turkey buzzard.

Thankfully, I'm not part of any such thing.

Of course, to people like yourself, anyone who is not a flaming communist is a one man "right wing death squad".

Oh, not really.

My biggest lefty position is healthcare. I agree more with libertarians on the vast majority of other issues.

And that's because healthcare in our nation is already set up as a social service. It's just unfunded and in the hands of profiteers.

[Esaias]

Originally Posted by Aquila

Oh, not really.

My biggest lefty position is healthcare. I agree more with libertarians on the vast majority of other issues.

And that's because healthcare in our nation is already set up as a social service. It's just unfunded and in the hands of profiteers.

Healthcare in our nation is a problem because of numerous reasons. Government management is the furthest thing from a viable, beneficial solution. What has the government ever managed that turned out okay?

One of the biggest problems with "healthcare" is that it isn't. It's "chronic sickness management". One of the easiest and clearest solutions is for people to manage themselves properly in ways that actually support health. That would include fewer doctor visits, by the way.

Also, healthcare costs so much largely because it costs so much to become a doctor, they are 100s of thousands of dollars in debt so have to charge outrageously just to pay off their student loans. Medicine has become a for profit enterprise so naturally inflation, profit, and so forth are the prime motivators behind everything. Previously, the church (as an institution) used to train doctors and health care was nowhere near as expensive as it is now. But, the church (as an institution) seems more intent on building bigger buildings and nice big houses for the board of directors, throwing a bone or two to the local soup kitchen to soothe their consciences.

I knew of a Baptist church 25 years ago in Houston, that according to their weekly report brought in an average of some $90,000 EVERY SUNDAY. They built a "coffee shop" at the church for the 20 somethings et al to congregate at (coffee wasn't free, of course).

Think what they could have done with that money instead? It would have been entirely within the realm of possibility for them to train laypeople to become MDs and serve as volunteers at the church, so that the membership could get reduced or even free medical care. If someone needed a 100,000 dollar operation at a first class medical facility, it would take two Sundays to raise the money for it WITHOUT needing to take up a "special offering".

But such things never seem to happen when big bucks are involved.

The solution? Christians need to be Christians, and churches need to take care of their own, and families need to work together to take care of their own. And Uncle Sam just needs to man the borders.

[Esaias]

Here's a good read on "free government health care":

http://theonomyresources.com/pdfs/Et...hn-Robbins.pdf

[Aquila]

Originally Posted by Esaias

Healthcare in our nation is a problem because of numerous reasons. Government management is the furthest thing from a viable, beneficial solution. What has the government ever managed that turned out okay?

See, I see a mixed bag on that question. Addison needed some very expensive treatments for a life threatening condition when she was younger. Her mother didn't have insurance, but Addison qualified for state programs funded in part by SCHIP. She was able to receive the treatments she needed and she's a viable, happy, healthy young lady today. Also, I have family in Canada. I've also been to Canada, UK, Amsterdam, and Brussels. Christina lived in Ely for a few years and received adequate care there. And, I have a government healthcare plan that is very cheap compared to most, but really good. Lastly, our politicians aren't voting to drop their government plans to pick up plans off the free market. Even the most libertarian of our politicians love their government healthcare plan. I've been able to receive counseling and services through the VA. The biggest problem I had was the attitude of those at the VA. But, they do get a lot of flack from vets, the very people they are there to serve.

Now, outside of these government plans and systems we had an average of 45,000 Americans dying every year because they couldn't afford health insurance to cover treatable conditions. My mom was one of them in 2007. Christina's step dad, Mark, had a complication with a heart surgery which landed him back at the hospital. He ended up waiting in a hospital waiting room for over six hours due to a mistake by the staff when he checked in at the desk. By the time a nurse caught the signs of how serious his condition was, it was too late. Though they rushed him to an ICU and thought they had him stable, he died of internal bleeding. Everyone I know has a horror story from America's healthcare system. From very expensive bills they can't pay to the loss of loved one's over negligence.

Now, I know universal healthcare has horror stories too. And I know that private care has success stories. My thing is cost. Dollar for dollar most people living in nations with universal health insurance pay far less than we do, and they get about the same level of care as the average American.

One of the biggest problems with "healthcare" is that it isn't. It's "chronic sickness management". One of the easiest and clearest solutions is for people to manage themselves properly in ways that actually support health. That would include fewer doctor visits, by the way.

So very true. Several studies I read indicated that most Canadians are healthier than the average American. They have more regular checkups and have a better idea of their overall health than most Americans. This means they are more health conscious than most Americans avoiding many of the health issues we struggle with. In addition, more serious issues are often found quite early compared to Americans. Which leads to less expensive treatments, and shorter hospital stays. Canadians tend to see their family doctor more often than Americans do... but they don't spend as much money or time in the hospital as most Americans either.

Also, healthcare costs so much largely because it costs so much to become a doctor, they are 100s of thousands of dollars in debt so have to charge outrageously just to pay off their student loans. Medicine has become a for profit enterprise so naturally inflation, profit, and so forth are the prime motivators behind everything. Previously, the church (as an institution) used to train doctors and health care was nowhere near as expensive as it is now. But, the church (as an institution) seems more intent on building bigger buildings and nice big houses for the board of directors, throwing a bone or two to the local soup kitchen to soothe their consciences.

That's true when it comes to family practice physicians. But the biggest driving factor to rising costs is... the uninsured. We have millions of uninsured people going to hospital ERs and they are billed, or denied coverage if they have inadequate coverage. They don't pay those bills, or they pay them slowly. And that loss is passed down to us... with fees attached.

In today's world, I wouldn't trust a church with anything beyond home remedies, herbal remedies, or natural medicine.

I knew of a Baptist church 25 years ago in Houston, that according to their weekly report brought in an average of some $90,000 EVERY SUNDAY. They built a "coffee shop" at the church for the 20 somethings et al to congregate at (coffee wasn't free, of course).

Think what they could have done with that money instead? It would have been entirely within the realm of possibility for them to train laypeople to become MDs and serve as volunteers at the church, so that the membership could get reduced or even free medical care. If someone needed a 100,000 dollar operation at a first class medical facility, it would take two Sundays to raise the money for it WITHOUT needing to take up a "special offering".

But such things never seem to happen when big bucks are involved.

The solution? Christians need to be Christians, and churches need to take care of their own, and families need to work together to take care of their own. And Uncle Sam just needs to man the borders.

Sadly, even the institutional church system is nothing but a money making enterprise.

That's one reason why I've always enjoyed house churches.

[Aquila]

Originally Posted by Esaias

Here's a good read on "free government health care":

http://theonomyresources.com/pdfs/Et...hn-Robbins.pdf

Thanks, I'll check it out.

Is there a specific element to this that you want to draw my attention to?

[Aquila]

For those who question if Christians should be involved at all in the governments of this world, or if Christians should be engaged in the quest for the Christian utopia of a "Christian Government", this book might prove interesting. It can be read online or downloaded from the link below.

Christian Anarchy
Jesus' Primacy Over the Powers
by Vernard Eller
https://archive.org/stream/Christian...ref=ol#page/n0

[Aquila]

The more I read about Christian anarchy, the more I tend to identify with it. First, all the governments, parties, movements, and "archys" of this world are fallen bestial systems wherein one fallen human being seeks to control another under threat of harm or death. And second, the rightwing Christian Reconstructionist vision presents itself as nothing but more of the same, but in a religious form as defined by men (men yet again) such as Rushdoony.

The only true "kingdom of God" is one ruled directly by Christ in the human heart. And that is a kingdom void of any earthly "archy". It is a one man revolution whereby born again individuals reject, and denounce, the notion of any inherent sacred authority in this world and its systems, or any other human system for that matter.

With this perspective, the Christian Anarchist would argue that the only government more devilish than an "secular" one is... a "holy" one.



Christian Reconstructionists propose to create another earthly "archy" wherein they justify imposing their power and tyranny upon men in the very name of Jesus Christ. And so, Christian Reconstructionism is... blasphemy.

The Kingdom of God is within you, and within me. It is in our very midst. And it isn't contingent on any earthly system, condition, or circumstance.

[Evang.Benincasa]

Originally Posted by Aquila

The more I read about Christian anarchy, the more I tend to identify with it. First, all the governments, parties, movements, and "archys" of this world are fallen bestial systems wherein one fallen human being seeks to control another under threat of harm or death. And second, the rightwing Christian Reconstructionist vision presents itself as nothing but more of the same, but in a religious form as defined by men (men yet again) such as Rushdoony.

The only true "kingdom of God" is one ruled directly by Christ in the human heart. And that is a kingdom void of any earthly "archy". It is a one man revolution whereby born again individuals reject, and denounce, the notion of any inherent sacred authority in this world and its systems, or any other human system for that matter.

With this perspective, the Christian Anarchist would argue that the only government more devilish than an "secular" one is... a "holy" one.



Christian Reconstructionists propose to create another earthly "archy" wherein they justify imposing their power and tyranny upon men in the very name of Jesus Christ. And so, Christian Reconstructionism is... blasphemy.

The Kingdom of God is within you, and within me. It is in our very midst. And it isn't contingent on any earthly system, condition, or circumstance.

You keep spelling Antichrist incorrectly.

[Esaias]

Originally Posted by Evang.Benincasa

You keep spelling Antichrist incorrectly.

Communists and anarchists: two supposedly polar opposites, yet we always find them traveling hand in hand.