I have Left the UPC Church

[Digging4Truth]

Originally Posted by Coonskinner

Digger,

Maybe you are in the wrong circles.

I would not be comfprtable naming names, and the men I would name would probably not be comfortable with me naming them as Apostles and Prophets in this setting.

Ahhhhhhh I see.

[Coonskinner]

Originally Posted by Daniel Alicea

There you have it ... ladies and gentlemen ... a peak into Mich's soul .... there's a word for this ....

No, a peek into Michelle's words and her own report of her actions.

I love Michelle in the Lord, and have prayed for her often and will continue to.

But when people withdraw and isolate themselves from the influences that God has ordained, in clear opposition to the Scripture, it is what it is.

[mizpeh]

Originally Posted by COOPER

Every good and perfect gift comes down from the Father above.

Are you a perfect gift?

Men are not perfect they will never be and should never be viewed and trusted as such Perfect gifts.

I failed to mention, the gift is perfect, the one receiving the gift is not perfect in the sense you are using the word. Mature is another definition of perfect. Would you agree a mature Christian who is walking with God is able to give sound scriptural advice though they may have flaws like the rest of us?

[Coonskinner]

Originally Posted by Digging4Truth

Ahhhhhhh I see.

I hope you don't think I am hedging, Brother.

But in an atmosphere where everything and everybody is fair game for judgment and criticism, I just would not feel comfortable laying good men on the chopping block here to be minced up when they aren't here to speak for themselves.

[Brett Prince]

There are MANY apostles and prophets among us. Because of the way the church structure works these days, most of them are called Evangelists or Pastors. Some are called teachers, and some are just referred to as preachers. But that does not negate their place.

Why is it okay to minimize, deride, malign, and otherwise ridicule the ministry?

[Coonskinner]

Originally Posted by Old Paths

THE GIFT is perfect not the man/woman.

Eph 4:8-16

8 Wherefore he saith, When he ascended up on high, he led captivity captive, and gave gifts unto men.

9(Now that he ascended, what is it but that he also descended first into the lower parts of the earth?

10 He that descended is the same also that ascended up far above all heavens, that he might fill all things.)

11 And he gave some, apostles; and some, prophets; and some, evangelists; and some, pastors and teachers;

12 For the perfecting of the saints, for the work of the ministry, for the edifying of the body of Christ:

13 Till we all come in the unity of the faith, and of the knowledge of the Son of God, unto a perfect man, unto the measure of the stature of the fulness of Christ:

14 That we henceforth be no more children, tossed to and fro, and carried about with every wind of doctrine, by the sleight of men, and cunning craftiness, whereby they lie in wait to deceive;

15 But speaking the truth in love, may grow up into him in all things, which is the head, even Christ:

16 From whom the whole body fitly joined together and compacted by that which every joint supplieth, according to the effectual working in the measure of every part, maketh increase of the body unto the edifying of itself in love.
KJV

Thank you, Elder.

[nathan_slatter]

Originally Posted by mizpeh

I failed to mention, the gift is perfect, the one receiving the gift is not perfect in the sense you are using the word. Mature is another definition of perfect. Would you agree a mature Christian who is walking with God is able to give sound scriptural advice?

I would merely ask then if this question is a positive answer -- then all mature Christians are part of the five fold in some manner. Therefore the question becomes, why the hierarchy of anointing? I ask because I know some VERY MATURE Christians who are leaders -- even if they don't hold position.

[SDG]

Originally Posted by Coonskinner

No, a peek into Michelle's words and her own report of her actions.

I love Michelle in the Lord, and have prayed for her often and will continue to.

But when people withdraw and isolate themselves from the influences that God has ordained, in clear opposition to the Scripture, it is what it is.

No it's your perception of her actions ... she is re-examining her faith .... and that goes in stages ... especially if she is in a setting that she deems is teaching extrabiblical doctrine ...

[nathan_slatter]

Originally Posted by Brett Prince

There are MANY apostles and prophets among us. Because of the way the church structure works these days, most of them are called Evangelists or Pastors. Some are called teachers, and some are just referred to as preachers. But that does not negate their place.

Why is it okay to minimize, deride, malign, and otherwise ridicule the ministry?

I, personally, would never minimize, deride, malign, and otherwise ridicule the ministry -- because I see the ministry being much, much bigger than any person who claims (whether truthfully or not) as being THE MINISTRY. It is God's ministry -- not mine or anyone else's and no one person (or group) is the ministry. God's ministry will continue and flourish, and still it is not dependent on any one person who is part of it.

[COOPER]

Originally Posted by Coonskinner

Cooper, I am not perfect.

Never have I claimed to be.

The ministry is God's gift.

Do you wish to debate that concept from the Scripture?

You'll lose.

I am not debating scripture.

Originally Posted by mizpeh

Why don't you answer his question? Why do you think God gave the five fold ministry?

I am not debating why.
Not all men are the gift.