McMinnville pastor accused in suit of Defamation - Page 26

Evang.Benincasa · #**251** 06-17-2015, 07:03 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Esaias

And see that the wife reverence (phobeo?) the husband?

It is a fear that brings respect. Like making sure you hand a knife to someone handle first. You are not terrified of the knife, you just respect that the blade is sharp and handle it with respect. The Greek word finds its way into the English as phobia. So, some believe that the apostle was telling wives to be terrified of their husbands, and the church to be terrified of Christ. Which isn't the true definition of the Greek.

good samaritan · #**252** 06-17-2015, 08:33 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Evang.Benincasa

It is a fear that brings respect. Like making sure you hand a knife to someone handle first. You are not terrified of the knife, you just respect that the blade is sharp and handle it with respect. The Greek word finds its way into the English as phobia. So, some believe that the apostle was telling wives to be terrified of their husbands, and the church to be terrified of Christ. Which isn't the true definition of the Greek.

Sabby · #**253** 06-17-2015, 09:22 AM

Good Samaritan,

You're exactly right about the "presbytery" being very nearly synonymous with the term "elder". In the our local church, the "presbytery" are older men.

Godsdrummer · #**254** 06-17-2015, 10:17 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Esaias

And see that the wife reverence (phobeo?) the husband?

Eph 5:28 So ought men to love their wives as their own bodies. He that loveth his wife loveth himself.
Eph 5:29 For no man ever yet hated his own flesh; but nourisheth and cherisheth it, even as the Lord the church:
Eph 5:30 For we are members of his body, of his flesh, and of his bones.
Eph 5:31 For this cause shall a man leave his father and mother, and shall be joined unto his wife, and they two shall be one flesh.
Eph 5:32 This is a great mystery: but I speak concerning Christ and the church.
Eph 5:33 Nevertheless let every one of you in particular so love his wife even as himself; and the wife see that she reverence her husband.

This must also be taken in the context of "as unto Christ" in the same way the man is to be subject to Christ the wife is to be to her husband. But this by no means give us the right to subjugate the wife, in the manner we do so in the way many of us think.

I believe this goes to the context of the discussion. Of a singular minister over a congregation. And why Paul describes the church as a body, with Christ as head, and God giving the body plural gifts. These gifts can be likened to hands feet, fingers etc, that work dependent to the body. But the bottom line is Christ is head not a man.

Something else we seem to miss, Paul said God gave gifts, some apostles, some pastors. Again not a singular pastor. Again I realize many wont agree with this, but I don't believe Paul is speaking of the church at large when he writes this but the local assembly. Meaning that within the local assembly God gave gifts of pastor/teachers. After all he is not writing to the church at large but the local assembly at Ephesus.

Godsdrummer · #**255** 06-17-2015, 10:18 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Evang.Benincasa

It is a fear that brings respect. Like making sure you hand a knife to someone handle first. You are not terrified of the knife, you just respect that the blade is sharp and handle it with respect. The Greek word finds its way into the English as phobia. So, some believe that the apostle was telling wives to be terrified of their husbands, and the church to be terrified of Christ. Which isn't the true definition of the Greek.

Godsdrummer · #**256** 06-17-2015, 10:42 AM

I just noticed this statement made by Samaritan

You might think I am getting a little out of context here. But, where I am going is that these ministries are not positions. Just because a wife may have a pastoral ministry doesn't mean that she is permitted to exercise that as a bishop over a church. That doesn't mean she can't teach in any capacity though. The ministry calling on her life must not go beyond Biblical boundaries set in the scripture, thus I say regulated.

Again I know many that don't agree with me on this. But I do not believe Paul's instructions concerning the wife precludes her from being a Bishop. To use the word pastor because that is the term we understand the most. I have known several wives that have been pastors that I believe were within the boundaries of Scripture.

One it comes down to the way we read Paul's instructions to wives/women in general. I believe Paul gave those instructions primarily for the general church setting, not as a overall set in stone law that a women could not speak in the assembly. In that setting and in most settings today even, there is no reason for a women to teach or hold a pastoral position. Husbands and wives should be in line with each other on doctrines etc, if not there is a problem in the marriage.

That being said there are exceptions where the women might need to step up so to speak into leadership. As long as she is in right position with her husband God honors and actually places a women in this position.
In more detail, these women were in harmony with there husbands and shared the leadership. Much like in the groups I now fellowship where the husband and wife are co pastors.
I guess you would have to experience this for yourself to understand how it truly works, but work it does and far greater than anything else I have experienced to date.

Esaias · #**257** 06-17-2015, 01:46 PM

Co-pastors?

You went charismatic, "word-faith", "The River(TM)"????

What do you mean by "subjugate"?

Does the word "patriarchy" automatically get the bile flowing?

Godsdrummer · #**258** 06-17-2015, 10:51 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Esaias

Co-pastors?

You went charismatic, "word-faith", "The River(TM)"????

What do you mean by "subjugate"?

Does the word "patriarchy" automatically get the bile flowing?

What is charismatic?

SUBJUGATE, v.t. [L. Sub and jugo, to yoke. See Yoke.] To subdue and bring under the yoke of power or dominion; to conquer by force and compel to submit to the government or absolute control of another.

"Patriarchy was a long time ago, when God called Abraham. No way can you Aline that with to the theocracy rule of God.

Esaias · #**259** 06-17-2015, 11:04 PM

Theocracy - rule by God. God is our FATHER, and we are his HOUSEHOLD. Therefore, God's system is a Patriarchy. Patriarchy means "rule by father", from Pater/Patria (father) and archos (rule, government).

Do you believe the head of the woman is the man? That a man is to rule (govern) his household?

Or do such ideas automatically make you think of tyranny and bondage?

good samaritan · #**260** 06-18-2015, 12:09 AM

I think the roles are reversing. A lot of men allow their wives to dictate their homes because of fear. Men should love their wives as Christ loved the church, but the emphasis on the bride is important as well. Man and woman will both answer for their sins, but their is a cultural shift and men are rolling over belly up and submitting to their female counterpart and I think many times it is out of fear. This culture of political correctness is making it hard to be a man.

Men are made to be responsible for their family (and they are),but If they try to exercise authority in their home they receive opposition from every direction that they are a chauvinist dictator. I know of men right now who are allowing their wives to destroy their witness, while they are passive in every situation to keep from troubling the waters. I am not posting this to stir up bad feelings between men and women, but instead encourage men to be godly leaders in their home.

Always do the right thing no matter what the opposition. We can't force our spouses to do anything, but we can make sure that the choices that we make are right. Even if that means sleeping on the couch.