Another SPLIT from the UPCI???

[Maple Leaf]

Originally Posted by Sam

We are not a UPC church nor is our pastor UPC.
The church is independent.
Our pastor was ordained through RHEMA where he went to Bible School.
He is also ordained in an organization called WME (Worldwide Missionary Evangelism). The website for that organization is
http://www.wmeinc.org/



I don't know of any "platform standard" for the singers, etc. I have never heard of it if there is, but I do not lead worship. I have taught midweek Bible Study in a Tee shirt, shorts, and sandals and it has been no problem. I don't remember ever seeing anyone in a tank top leading worship but I personally would have no problem with it. My pastor has facial hair and wears shorts but I don't ever remember seeing him preaching on Sunday morning in shorts. He ordinarily does not wear a tie when he preaches.

It is my personal opinion that it is none of my business how a brother or sister dresses. That is between the brother or sister and his or her Lord.

Originally Posted by Steve Epley

Do they baptize in Jesus Name and preach tongues is the initial evidence? Are they Trinitarian in theology?

I have a question also. You said, "I have taught midweek Bible Study in a Tee shirt, shorts, and sandals. . ."

My question is simple: "Why?"

[Sam]

Originally Posted by Steve Epley

Do they baptize in Jesus Name and preach tongues is the initial evidence? Are they Trinitarian in theology?

Baptism is usually done with the traditional (FS&HG) formula but I've heard the pastor use Jesus' name with that or even by itself.

The "initial evidence" is preached but the Holy Ghost Baptism is considered a post-salvational experience.

Yes, the church would be considered trinitarian in theology.

[Sam]

Originally Posted by Maple Leaf

I have a question also. You said, "I have taught midweek Bible Study in a Tee shirt, shorts, and sandals. . ."

My question is simple: "Why?"

That's the way I ordinarily dress in the summer time.

We don't "dress up" for church.

[Jermyn Davidson]

Originally Posted by Sam

Is "The Manual" as we know it only applicable to the continental U.S.A.?

How many "Manuals" are there?

If tv is not an issue in some of the countries, how about hair? I had heard somewhere that the requirement for long hair on ladies was only an American UPC issue. Is that correct? Are UPC ladies allowed to trim/cut their hair in other countries?

When I went to Malaysia, the jungle people lived standards harder than many Apostolics I know today-- but, even in the jungle, their church was known as a cult by some of the locals

[Jermyn Davidson]

Originally Posted by CC1

Keep us posted on how that goes. Will be interesting to see if not wearing shorts gets you closer to God. (I am having trouble finding Bible for that but will withhold judgement until you report back).

CC1,
Doesn't the Bible speak of things that would make "standards" Biblical?

Aren't their verses to back up the notion of consecrating oneself to get closer to God?

Again, to equate any specific church's "standards" with salvation is, "another gospel", but a person can't be out of the Bible living by them?


Are you suggesting that a person would be out of the Bible deciding to live by some established "standards" in order to be closer to God?

[CC1]

Originally Posted by Jermyn Davidson

CC1,
Doesn't the Bible speak of things that would make "standards" Biblical?

Aren't their verses to back up the notion of consecrating oneself to get closer to God?

Again, to equate any specific church's "standards" with salvation is, "another gospel", but a person can't be out of the Bible living by them?


Are you suggesting that a person would be out of the Bible deciding to live by some established "standards" in order to be closer to God?

Read my post again. I did not say any of the things you mentin. I merely stated I was interested in seeing how your idea works out that not wearing shorts is going to make you closer to God. I don't see any Bible for that happening either directly or extrapolated from principles but that does not mean it is not going to happen for you. That is why I said keep us posted and let us know how that works out!

[Jermyn Davidson]

Originally Posted by CC1

Read my post again. I did not say any of the things you mentin. I merely stated I was interested in seeing how your idea works out that not wearing shorts is going to make you closer to God. I don't see any Bible for that happening either directly or extrapolated from principles but that does not mean it is not going to happen for you. That is why I said keep us posted and let us know how that works out!

So you are saying that if a person decides to not wear shorts (a specific standard or consecration) in order to get closer to God, that decision is not Bible based.


If that decision is not Bible based, how can it possibly get me closer to God to do so?

[oletime]

Originally Posted by Jermyn Davidson

So you are saying that if a person decides to not wear shorts (a specific standard or consecration) in order to get closer to God, that decision is not Bible based.


If that decision is not Bible based, how can it possibly get me closer to God to do so?

the only thing i can come up with from what i was taught jd is we are not to expose our body immodestly NOW whats immodest i aint going there thats between you and your God my pastor teaches it depends on where we are in our walk are we going towards him or away from where you have been in other words two people could be doing the same thing for one he is attempting to sacrifice or fast something like what you suggested and in the other case it could be a step down [not related to the same example if you see what i mean] i think in your case there is a desire to step up or in a different direction and not be stagnant you know if we always do the same thing dont be surprised if we get the same results i think you are to be commended it shows the heart

[Maple Leaf]

Originally Posted by Sam

Baptism is usually done with the traditional (FS&HG) formula but I've heard the pastor use Jesus' name with that or even by itself.

The "initial evidence" is preached but the Holy Ghost Baptism is considered a post-salvational experience.

Yes, the church would be considered trinitarian in theology.

Originally Posted by Maple Leaf

I have a question also. You said, "I have taught midweek Bible Study in a Tee shirt, shorts, and sandals. . ."

My question is simple: "Why?"

Originally Posted by Sam

That's the way I ordinarily dress in the summer time.

We don't "dress up" for church.

I guess that if it doesn't matter what you believe about God or baptism, it probably doesn't matter how you dress either.

I don't have a problem with tee shirts, shorts, or sandals in their place, but I hold too high a view of the gravity of the pulpit and the Word of God to wear them there.

I would feel as much like a goof behind the pulpit in a pair of shorts as I would at the beach with a long sleeved white shirt.

[Jermyn Davidson]

Originally Posted by oletime

the only thing i can come up with from what i was taught jd is we are not to expose our body immodestly NOW whats immodest i aint going there thats between you and your God my pastor teaches it depends on where we are in our walk are we going towards him or away from where you have been in other words two people could be doing the same thing for one he is attempting to sacrifice or fast something like what you suggested and in the other case it could be a step down [not related to the same example if you see what i mean] i think in your case there is a desire to step up or in a different direction and not be stagnant you know if we always do the same thing dont be surprised if we get the same results i think you are to be commended it shows the heart

Well I haven't formally committed this to God yet, honestly.

I'm only thinking about it right now-- and it has been a while since I have wore shorts in public anyway.


I don't want to be caught up in some vain practice of piety that has no value in the sight of God. I don't want to do something solely for the purpose of fitting in or whatever.

I do want to please God. I do want to get closer to God.

I remember when I was much closer to God, when I was stationed in Jacksonville, NC, I followed these standards (except when in military uniform) but I followed these standards out of obedience and compulsion-- not because I believed in them.

In fact, I hated them and thought it to be useless and phariseetical.

But I did them anyway and was a lot closer to God.


I want that walk with God back!

I want to supercede that place!!

I want to know the best way to get there from here.


I've fallen so low from that place to where I was and now I'm getting closer to Him and I just want to continue getting closer to Him.


God would sometimes (often) answer my prayers immediately when I was in Jacksonville, NC. (Often as in more often then than now for sure!)

Even though I did not lik much of the stuff that happened to me and others and the stuff I saw in general while at the church there, I learned how to pray there, I learned how to touch God there. I learned how to openly worship there.

In the flesh, I didn't like that church or Camp Lejeune or even Onclow County, NC!

But I love what God did in my life while I was there!
Those memories are priceless!
I want my walk with God to be better than that, today, and not just something I look back on and remember.

Maybe standards are the way to go for that to happen, but that doesn't make sense.

So I bring it here for discussion.
Maybe someone has been where I am right now and they can give Biblical advice.