Bishop SC Johnson

[citizen]

Originally Posted by martha

...I am not endorsing the site on which these audio tapes are posted because I know nothing about Bishop Walker whose church sponsors this site. But THE TAPES BY BISHOP JOHNSON ARE ALLLL GOOD. And Bishop Walker KNOWS THEY'RE ALL GOOD. That's why he posts them on his web site. THE NAME OF BISHOP JOHNSON STILL DRAWS A CROWD. I WONDER WHY?

Did you ever think of contacting this Bishop Walker's church, to see what kind of believers they were - since they seem to have enough love and respect for Bishop Johson's teachings?

Dont you need fellowship?

You also said that there was no one preaching the 'truth' from the time of the bible until Bishop became a preacher. How do you know this?
You said no one was teaching the oness of the Godhead until Bishop Johnson.
I am so sorry to tell you that teaching has been around since the first church.

I can go down a whole line of Christians throughout Christianity that preached that Jesus is God and that there is only one God.

The truth did not jump from John the Apostle until Bishop Johson NOR did it jump from John the Apostle until Azusa Street (alot of people think that).

[martha]

Originally Posted by TRFrance

Martha, I will say this politely, but directly. You are sadly misled, my sister.

Martha: I belive that Jesus Christ is God Almighty; Father in creation, Son in redemption and Holy Ghost in the church. I believe that Jesus Christ, the Son of God was crucified my my sins, buried, resurrected and ascended into heaven and is my advocate/Mediator before the Father. I believe in baptism in water, in the name of Jesus Christ according to Acts 2:38 and receiving the gift of the Holy Ghost, speaking in tongues, as the Spirit gives utterance. I believe that without being born of water and of the Spirit, no man will enter the Kingdom of God. I believe in the Apostles doctrine as written in the Holy Bible and I believe we must live by it. I don't believe that a man/woman can have other marriage parterners as long as they already have a living husband/wife. I don't believe in women preachers. I believe one must speak in tongues as a sign of being filled with the Holy Ghost. These are my basic beliefs, Where, Sir, am I misled?

For you to assume that no minister knows the Gospel today outside of SC Johnson is shortsighted, to put it politely.

The Body of Christ, God's church, is bigger than any one man.

Martha: IT'S NOT THE MAN; IT'S THE WORD, THE WORD, THE WORD! Get over 'THE MAN'. It's the "WORD" that the man preaches that saves.

There are millions of saints in countries all over the world who have never even heard of Bishop SC Johnson. What do you say about them?

Martha: Does it matter what "I" say about them? What does God say about them? Find the scriptures.

These people dont listen to tapes. They have pastors who watch over the flock, provide guidance and instruction, and seek a word from God which they preach each Sunday to their churches.

Martha: You place far too much emphasis on the fact that "they have pastors". Having pastors means absolutely nothing if those pastors don't know and preach "the truth." Either you believe that God Almighty has His own truth or you believe that each one and every one can modify God's way to their liking, thinking or erroneous understanding and thereby establish their own truth and their own righteousness. You can't cram apostasy down God's throat, no matter how sincere your efforts to do so. There are thousands of "pastors" right here in the good ole USA but I have yet to hear ONE preaching the truth. Either you demand truth or you compromise for error mixed with truth which makes it all error.

Perhaps these people preach "all they know" but "all they know" does not match up with the word of God, so far as I've heard. There may be much that I have not heard but of that I have heard, they do not match up with the word of God. Perhaps you're hearing what I have not heard but if you are, where are you hearing it? The church building is not the body of Christ. The people of God are the body of Christ.


People are being filled with the Holy Ghost, baptized in Jesus name, spiritual gifts are in operation, revival is taking place, and God is moving among them in a great way. It is ridiculous that you people have elevated this man to this level, as if God is now limited.

Martha: Revival into what? Error? I hear nothing but error, everywhere. You talk a good talk but you can't tell me that God is in all the error going on in the churches today.


God is not limited at all, my sister. For your own sake, open your eyes and see what God is doing. It's a great big world out there, and God is moving mightily all over the planet, outside of this little "box" (SC Johnson and his teachings) that you folks have created.

Martha: You can't put God anywhere where the truth of his word is not being preached/heard.


Trusting in flesh and blood to oversee the chrurch?
Really? You mean like the apostles, prophets, pastors, etc that the Bible says is part of God's pattern of leadership over his church?? Arent they flesh-and-blood leaders of the spiritual body of Christ?

Martha: Find one of these people in any church preaching the truth, if you can.

Do you not know that in the original Greek, the word "bishop" that Paul uses in the NT literally means "overseer" ? Yes, God is the Great Overseer... but He also has placed human overseers over his flock. That is biblical. What you are talking about is not biblical.

Martha: They said the same thing about the first Apostles.

Please. Dont talk to me about hollow.

Martha: Anything that's not truth is hollow.

So lets take your words... and place them alongside the Word of God, ok?

Do you folks even pay attention to Ephesians 4:11-16?
You seem to have forgotten about the 5-fold ministry of the word of God... apostles (plural, not just Johnson), prophets, evangelists, pastors, and teachers. That is God'd biblical pattern for the Body of Christ. You people are not in line with God's biblical pattern because you not allowing the five-fold ministry to operate among you according to the word of God. Go see what your own bible says about that, and compare it to what you people are doing.

Martha: Do "you folks" pay attention to scriptural truth? What you're not understanding is that these ministers are not preaching truth today. Do you recall Apostle Paul saying that ravenous wolves would come in after his departure? Do you remember all the warnings in the bible about false teachers? Do you think Jesus and the Apostles said all that for no reason? THERE HAS ALWAYS BEEN FALSE TEACHERS.

If you take the time to really see what the scripture says on this, you will see... The five fold ministry is to operate in the body of Christ until Jesus's coming ... it didnt stop at the coming of SC Johnson. Plain and simple, you people are out of order and need to get back in line with the plan of God as shown in the bible.

Martha: The scripture does not say that the five fold ministry would operate in the body of Christ until Jesus' coming. Where's the scripture for that? What happened to the five fold ministry of the first century church after the death of all the apostles? I'll tell you what happened to it, it turned into apostasy with groups interpreting scripture as it suited them the same as they do to this day. The church at pentecost was lost and with it went the true five fold ministry. The first century church that started on the day of pentecost disappeared from the earth. When Jesus said the gates of hell would not prevail against His church, he did not mean that this would not happen. It was all part of his plan otherwise it would not have happened. The prophet Isaiah prophesied that this would happen.

Martha: Bishop Johnson was an apostle of God. I have no knowledge of another since his death for those since his death have preached error. And all those, in all the churches, during his lifetime preached error and do to this day.



-------
No more apostles after Johnson? Where's the scripture for that?
No pastors/overseers today? Where's the scripture for that?
No prophets? Where's the scripture for that?

Is your minister an apostle? What apostles do you know since the original twelve plus Paul? What apostles do you know today, give me their doctrine and let's compare that to Bishop Johnson's. Or do you just take their word for it that they're an apostle? Prove all things. What true prophets do you know today? I've heard prophecies from those who call themselves prophets but they're false prophecies, nothing more than modern day sooth sayers. Apostle Paul said if any man thinks he's a prophet, or spiritual, let him acknowledge that things I write unto you are the commandments of the Lord. It follows that if they don't acknowledge that,with the right interpretation of it, they're no prophets. What some people call prophecy is nothing more than common deduction and not prophecy. It's a shame what some people will do in the churches for attention and position. But Apostle Peter said the God's servants and handmaidens would prophesy. Bishop Johnson prophesied that there would not be another apostle after him and he has not been proven wrong after 48 years.


Martha: Do you know what an apostle is? An apostle is one who hears directly from God. He is not taught by man. How many in the five fold ministry today are taught by God and how many go through the seminary? How do we know if they're taught by God? There's no error in their teaching.

Find me the scriptures for that, and then we can really talk. But at this point, this stuff you're telling me is not just unbiblical, but anti-biblical.

Martha: Find me a preacher who preaches what Bishop Johnson preached and then we can really talk.

[citizen]

Originally Posted by martha

Martha: Find me a preacher who preaches what Bishop Johnson preached and then we can really talk.

From what I have heard, and I have listened to many, the preachers that started their own ministry after he died, preach what he preached and give honor to him during their radio sermons.

They seem to really love him and are now carrying on in his footsteps and have brought many people out of trinitarianism into the apostolic way of salvation.

[Ferd]

sorry. this reminds me of the guy who's wife died but he couldnt part with her, so he never called the autoritie and just kept her in his house.


goulish.

[warrior]

Originally Posted by martha

Martha: Find me a preacher who preaches what Bishop Johnson preached and then we can really talk.

The Holy Temple Church preaches Bishop Johnson's doctrine totally. Check them out.

[warrior]

Originally Posted by citizen

From what I have heard, and I have listened to many, the preachers that started their own ministry after he died, preach what he preached and give honor to him during their radio sermons.

They seem to really love him and are now carrying on in his footsteps and have brought many people out of trinitarianism into the apostolic way of salvation.

Citizen, maybe Martha will check out the Holy Temple Church. They totally preach Bishop Johnson's doctrine if not a bit stricter.

[warrior]

Martha, are you saying that GOD is UNABLE to impart truth to another man other than Bishop Johson? Please answer.


You said that no one has preached truth before or after Bishop Johnson.
According to you only Bishop Johnson's faithful members are going to heaven. You can't possibly believe that God is that small.

[Ferd]

dead people smell bad.

[warrior]

Martha, please point me in the direction of the scripture that says Bishop Johnson is the LAST APOSTLE. I sincerely want to see it in the Bible.

I pointed you in the direction of a Bishop that teaches exact same doctrine that Bishop Johnson preached, they are Bishop Belton Green and Bishop Melvin Samuels. Now, show me the scripture where it says that please. Thank you.

[martha]

Originally Posted by warrior

Martha, I have read your responses, and I don't believe that Bishop Johnson was the last apostle. The scripture doesn't make reference to anyone ever being the last apostle.

Martha: Since no one is preaching what Bishop Johnson preached, and Bishop Johnson was an apostle, Bishop Johnson was the last apostle. Believe what you will but there are no apostles in the world today. An apostle is one whose understanding is given by God and not learned from the elders or taught in the seminaries and also whose preaching is that of truth.

I don't believe that there was no truth before or after him. Saying that would make God a liar. In otherwords, salvation wasn't available until Bishop Johnson. Now you know that isn't true.

Martha: Of course there was the first century church that started on the day of pentecost but we all know that church died out after the death of all the apostles and was replaced by apotasy just like it is today. Can you find the church of pentecost, the first century church, anywhere in history later into the second century? The first century church ceases to exist as was prophesied.

Bishop Johnson did preach that nylons would send you to hell I have a few messages like that.

Martha: I have my personal knowledge of what he said about nylon stockings and that personal knowledge is that NOT WEARING NYLON STOCKS WOULD NOT SEND YOU TO HELL although it was a part of the dress code. I do not deny that the dress code was strict and although it was advanced by Mary Green, Bishop Johnson okayed it and he expected the women to comply with it. Do you see anywhere in the bible where it says long dresses, hats and cotton stockings will send you to hell? I don't think so. Why are you so obsessed with the dress code.


If Bishop Johnson thought the standard that Mary Green made was too strict he had the right to change it as the the pastor.

Martha: I have no knowledge of Bishop Johnson saying that the standard tht Mary Green made was too strict or ever wanted to change it. It continued in the church after Bishop Johnson was dead. It was removed with the last Bishop now presiding over that church as you most likely are aware.


Besides, who gave anyone the right to add to the scriptures. As stated by you, the standards that he set are not in the Bible.

Martha: You, like everyone else in the whole world who knows of Bishop Johnson, you too are obsessed with the dress code. As you well know, the scriptures state that women are to dress in modest apparel as becomes one professing godliness. Bishop Johnson was within his scriptural authority to say what constituted dress as becomes women professing godlines, in his opinion just the same as Apostle Peter was within his right to address womens' dress in the first place. Surely we all know that godly women should not dress like harlots. But everyone has his/her own ideas on what constitutes "dress a becomes a woman professing godliness." Since everyone has their own ideas of what that is, it was necessary that someone establish a "standard" as to WHAT THAT WAS GOING TO BE. Again, why are you obsessed with the womens' dress? Why are you not more concerned with his gospel?

The no son of God theory can easily be challenged with the scriptures.

No it can't.

There are several scriptures that say Jesus is sitting on the right side of his father in heaven.

That's exactly where he is, just as the scripture said he is. What do you think the right hand of the father is? Please don't tell me you think a spirit that fills heaven and earth has a right and left hand. And please don't tell me you think there's two Gods up there.

With all of the Bible reading you say you do, surely you know about those scriptures.

Martha: I know all about them.

The scriptures say that a woman should cover her head when she is praying and prophesying. It says nothing about walking around with your head covered when you are doing neither. Those are more additions to the scripture.

Martha: Since you appear to have once been a part of this church you should remember why he said that. Again, it appears to be the dress code and not the doctrine that you're most concerned with.


It is obvious that there are so many breeds of the Johnsonites because there are those who are waiting on his ressurection from the dead.

Martha: I have NEVER WAITED ON BISHOP JOHNSON TO BE RESURRECTED NOR DO I KNOW ANYONE THAT DOES. Who do YOU KNOW that's waiting for Bishop Johnson to be resurrected (before the first resurrection)?

Anyway, you and your fellow members are so far gone until any other logic wouldn't make a difference to you anyway.

Martha: Bible truth and not "Greek" logic is what matters. It's the Greek logic mentality that does not see what apostle Paul calls the "mystery" of godliness 2nd Tim. 3:16. and therefore does not understand the relationship between the Father and the Son.


In my personal expereinces, I have seen you many people just like you, and it is pretty sad. Bishop Johnson is dead and if God intended for him to still be pastoring people, he would be alive.

Martha: Well now, that's really profound that you can discern that Bishop Johnson is dead and if God intended him to still be pastoring people,he would still be alive. But you don't get it. He's still pastoring people AND HE'S DEAD, just like the other apostles. The principle of God's word is that IT DOES NOT PASS AWAY.

Martha: The word is alive. Peter and Paul and all the apostles are also dead. Do you stop reading their words? They've said all they're going to say in the written word. Where's your "vision" with nothing new being written for the past 2000 years? Same "Old, Old" word. LOL< LOL But people still haven't learned it in all this time!

There are so many things in scripture that you have neglected simply by being pastored by a tape. You know what those things are and I don't have to tell you. I have mentioned many of them and you didn't respond to them.

Martha: I'm not aware of anything you said that I have not responded to, unless it was something frivilous and silly or that I just overlooked. And what have I neglected?

Anyway, you are no different than the others that I know. Believe me, you are truly in my prayers that God would give you an understanding. Bishop Johnson's voice will continue to be just an echo because those who truly know what God is requiring of us have a living pastor.

Martha: And you are exactly like all the others; no love of the truth. Is your living pastor telling you the living word or is he telling you what you want to hear? Or perhaps he's just preaching error and you/he don't mind/know error when you hear it.

The scripture says God will not leave himself without a witness.

Martha: It said no such thing, NOT IN THE WAY YOU SEEM TO BE SAYING IT. Whoever taught you that gave you an erroneous understanding of it. It appears you take that "witness" in this particular scripture to be "preachers of the gospel". When we know that the prophet prophesied that darkness would cover the earth and gross darkness the people (no true word of God), we should know that Acts 14:17 is not talking about men preaching the gospel, not to mention the fact that this particularis scripture is "clear" scripture on the matter. Go back and read Acts 14:17 again and see that Apostle Paul is talking about the "works" of God manifested in fruitful seasons and rain, etc, in the earth that showed His presence in the earth. Those things were His "witness", not preachers of the gospel. Go back and research the first century church and see what happened to it after all the apostles had died. Perhaps you would believe the historians.

By the way, the reason you have not found anyone with truth is because you have convinced yourself that there is no one. Try looking.

Martha: "The reason I have not found anyone preaching the truth is because their preaching does not agree with what the written word says.