Marriage Rejuvenation?

[TK Burk]

Originally Posted by Aquila

As for biblical marriage, it was governed by a private contract between couples or families (not a civil contract).

In the early church, common marriages were governed under common law, established by cohabitation and repute. Churches only blessed or condemned unions. In ancient Rome, such marriages were indeed legal and recognized by the government, though not established by Roman contract. Rome did have a contractual marriage in addition to common law. These were typically options for the wealthy and proper Roman citizens.

Common law marriages were recognized until the Anglican churches began requiring licensing under English law, which Quakers resisted. Common law marriages were common in the colonies and on the frontier. This endured until the time states began requiring civil licensing, around the time of the Emancipation to prevent mixed marriages. Today, most states have abolished common law marriage. Quakers have resisted this also, believing that marriage is a natural common right, not a civil privilege.

So, did you get a legal divorce from your first wife before you remarried your new wife/fiancée?

[votivesoul]

Originally Posted by Sean

I cannot think of a single verse that shows(even hints) a couple getting permission by a govt agency to get married in the old or new testament times, can you help me?

Saul, as King of Israel (the governing agency) gave permission to any man who defeated Goliath, to marry his daughter. No one would have been allowed otherwise, that is, without Saul's consent.

When Boaz sat in the gate and bartered for Ruth's hand, the agency that governed the matter was first, the Torah, as this was an instance of the Levirate Vow, and secondly, the elders in the gate.

Just because these things look way different from what we think of when we say government, doesn't mean they were not.

The Bible has dowries, exchanges of land and treaties through marriage, bartering and negotiating for hands in marriage, and etc.

It's all there for anyone to see.

These things all help shape our understanding of marriage customs from Old to New Covenants.

Jesus went to a wedding in Cana of Galilee, in which an after ceremony reception was held, which was hosted by an MC.

See:

https://www.bibleodyssey.org/en/pass...ancient-israel

http://www.bible.ca/marriage/ancient...-the-bible.htm

http://www.bible-history.com/links.p...rriage+Customs

http://www.bible-history.com/biblestudy/marriage.html

http://www.chabad.org/library/articl...e-Ceremony.htm

[Aquila]

Originally Posted by TK Burk

You're asking a guy using the fake name "Aquila" if the preterists that use their real names in their posts are being creepy about their names?

LOL

It's the internet. I think anonymity is of value, especially if one has unpopular opinions.

[Sean]

http://www.apostolicfriendsforum.com...&postcount=229

http://www.apostolicfriendsforum.com...&postcount=230


TK, I am serious.

Is ANY sexual union, (a type/description of)marriage in the eyes of God?

Notice the comparison to the harlot verse and the traditional marriage verse(s)

Maybe not, but your opinion is needed here.

[Sean]

Originally Posted by votivesoul

Saul, as King of Israel (the governing agency) gave permission to any man who defeated Goliath, to marry his daughter. No one would have been allowed otherwise, that is, without Saul's consent.

When Boaz sat in the gate and bartered for Ruth's hand, the agency that governed the matter was first, the Torah, as this was an instance of the Levirate Vow, and secondly, the elders in the gate.

Just because these things look way different from what we think of when we say government, doesn't mean they were not.

The Bible has dowries, exchanges of land and treaties through marriage, bartering and negotiating for hands in marriage, and etc.

It's all there for anyone to see.

These things all help shape our understanding of marriage customs from Old to New Covenants.

Jesus went to a wedding in Cana of Galilee, in which an after ceremony reception was held, which was hosted by an MC.

See:

https://www.bibleodyssey.org/en/pass...ancient-israel

http://www.bible.ca/marriage/ancient...-the-bible.htm

http://www.bible-history.com/links.p...rriage+Customs

http://www.bible-history.com/biblestudy/marriage.html

http://www.chabad.org/library/articl...e-Ceremony.htm

I agree with all of that(documentation by families etc.)

I dont see marriage licenses anywhere given by authorities in this though. Only approval of kin folk.(everyon can be 'agin it, but you can still get married by a state official)

This is what has changed in modern times.

[TK Burk]

Originally Posted by Aquila

LOL

It's the internet. I think anonymity is of value, especially if one has unpopular opinions.

Please, share that with Sean.

[Aquila]

It seems like marriage was in better shape before it became a government program. Sadly, due to many laws governing civil marriage, there is almost more incentive to divorce when the going gets tough than there is to remain married.

[TK Burk]

Originally Posted by Sean

http://www.apostolicfriendsforum.com...&postcount=229

http://www.apostolicfriendsforum.com...&postcount=230


TK, I am serious.

Is ANY sexual union, (a type/description of)marriage in the eyes of God?

Notice the comparison to the harlot verse and the traditional marriage verse(s)

Maybe not, but your opinion is needed here.

Sean, you were supposed to teach us, remember?

I asked you twice now these two questions:

Well, if the lineages in Matthew 1 and Luke 3 and the Jewish ketubah is not enough, maybe YOU should tell us how marriage is done in the Bible??

And while you're at it, please explain to us why there is a need for a "bill of divorcement" if there was never some type of judicial agreement on marriage.

You replied with the following:

Originally Posted by Sean

I am in the process.

Is it really taking you this much time to answer these two questions?

[TK Burk]

Originally Posted by Aquila

It seems like marriage was in better shape before it became a government program. Sadly, due to many laws governing civil marriage, there is almost more incentive to divorce when the going gets tough than there is to remain married.

So, did you get a legal divorce from your first wife before you remarried your new wife/fiancée?

[TK Burk]

The 1838 Webster's Dictionary defines "license" as follows:

LI'CENSE, n. [L. licentia, from liceo, to be permitted.]

1. Leave; permission; authority or liberty given to do or forbear any act. A license may be verbal or written; when written, the paper containing the authority is called a license. A man is not permitted to retail spirituous liquors till he has obtained a license.

2. Excess of liberty; exorbitant freedom; freedom abused, or used in contempt of law or decorum.

License they mean, when they cry liberty.

LI'CENSE, v.t.

1. To permit by grant of authority; to remove legal restraint by a grant of permission; as, to license a man to keep an inn.

2. To authorize to act in a particular character; as, to license a physician or a lawyer.

3. To dismiss. [Not in use.]

So, basically, "license" means to be granted permission. With that in mind, Aquila and Sean, please answer the following:

1. If you have children, do they have Social Security numbers you use for identification purposes?
2. If you have children, do they have birth certificates you use for identification purposes?
3. Do you have a birth certificate that you use for identification purposes?
4. Do you have a Social Security number that you use for identification purposes?
5. Are you registered to vote?
6. Do you have a drivers license you use for identification purposes?
7. Do you have any type bank loan or credit card?
8. Do you pay taxes on your paycheck?
9. Do you use local utilities for your home?
10. Do you have a passport?
11. Do you have a gun permit?
12. Do you ever stay at a hotel or motel?
13. Do you ever purchase items that require a civil supplied photo ID?
14. Do you have a hunting license?
15. Do you have a fishing license?
16. Do you have a cell phone?
17. Do you ever visit casinos?
18. Do you ever give blood donations?
19. Do you purchase OTC medicine that contains pseudoephedrine?
20. Do you travel by plane?
21. Do you work for a company that pays you?
22. Do you ever make cash transactions of $5000.00 or greater?

Like a marriage, each of the above requires a CIVIL license, law, and/or picture ID.

So, if you do any of the above, then you are guilty of using civil authorities and laws to grant you permission to participate in said activities.

Thus, the claim that obtaining a civil license for marriage is anti-Bible is at best a biblically illiterate rant, or at worst it's an immoral justification for fornication, adultery, or polygamy.