Why Do You Believe Jesus is God?

[Aquila]

Originally Posted by Walks_in_islam

The famous passage: John 10:30.

What does ONE (Greek word HEN) mean?

John 11

52 and not for the nation only, but that also the children of God, who have been scattered abroad, he may gather together into one. If this word word (HEN - ONE) means what you say it means then that means that somehow the people of God are all the same individual. It does not.

John 17: (Interestingly enough, Jesus who you say is proven to be God in the book of John, is praying to God in John 17 but not a one of you have ever explained this or brought this up)

11 and no more am I in the world, and these are in the world, and I come unto Thee. Holy Father, keep them in Thy name, whom Thou hast given to me, that they may be one as we

Same word - HEN - ONE - does NOT mean that each disciple is the same as the other disciple. It is used to show sameness in purpose/beliefs/feelings/goals (which I believe we all agree that Jesus was same in purpose with God)

Again in John 17 - here Jesus himself explains what (HEN - ONE) means which is much closer to what I believe it means than what you believe it means:

21 that they all may be one, as Thou Father [art] in me, and I in Thee; that they also in us may be one, that the world may believe that Thou didst send me. ONE in US? The disciples were gods also? By your logic they are (speaking of peril yah? but by mine they are not)

22 `And I, the glory that thou hast given to me, have given to them, that they may be one as we are one;

23 I in them, and Thou in me, that they may be perfected into one, and that the world may know that Thou didst send me, and didst love them as Thou didst love me.

Summary:

"I and my father are one" does not mean that they are the same entity. It means that they are two different distinct entities with completely common goals and purposes - this does not make Jesus God any more than becoming ONE makes the disciples Peter the same as the Disciple John.

Another example: 1 Cor 6:16

16 have ye not known that he who is joined to the harlot is one body? `for they shall be -- saith He -- the two for one flesh.'

17 And he who is joined to the Lord is one spirit;

Being joined as ONE to your wife which is the reference here does not make you a wife any more than being joined as ONE to God makes you a god.

With that said I believe I saw you post He will judge all men

Not what your book says. Book says many will judge. I will let you find the passages because I think you (not just you, all of you) need to study it more.

Jesus said to them, "Truly I tell you, at the renewal of all things, when the Son of Man sits on his glorious throne, you who have followed me will also sit on twelve thrones, judging the twelve tribes of Israel."

And I saw thrones, and they sat upon them, and judgment was given to them, and the souls of those who have been beheaded because of the testimony of Jesus, and because of the word of God, and who did not bow before the beast, nor his image, and did not receive the mark upon their forehead and upon their hand, and they did live and reign with Christ the thousand years

Or do you not know that the Lord's people will judge the world? And if you are to judge the world, are you not competent to judge trivial cases?

You need to go back and read what I wrote slowly. I essentially said that Jesus is a man who is one with God. He is both, man... and God. The human tabernacle of God Almighty. Even Muhammed will testify to Jesus being the human tabernacle of God at the judgment.

[mfblume]

Originally Posted by Walks_in_islam

OH yeah before I fly out I forgot something:

The answer to http://mikeblume.com/ and the paypal link

II Cor 2:17 - NIRV

"Unlike many people, we aren’t selling God’s word to make money. In fact, it is just the opposite. Because of Christ we speak honestly before God. We speak like people God has sent."

1Co 9:7-14 KJV Who goeth a warfare any time at his own charges? who planteth a vineyard, and eateth not of the fruit thereof? or who feedeth a flock, and eateth not of the milk of the flock? (8) Say I these things as a man? or saith not the law the same also? (9) For it is written in the law of Moses, Thou shalt not muzzle the mouth of the ox that treadeth out the corn. Doth God take care for oxen? (10) Or saith he it altogether for our sakes? For our sakes, no doubt, this is written: that he that ploweth should plow in hope; and that he that thresheth in hope should be partaker of his hope. (11) If we have sown unto you spiritual things, is it a great thing if we shall reap your carnal things? (12) If others be partakers of this power over you, are not we rather? Nevertheless we have not used this power; but suffer all things, lest we should hinder the gospel of Christ. (13) Do ye not know that they which minister about holy things live of the things of the temple? and they which wait at the altar are partakers with the altar? (14) Even so hath the Lord ordained that they which preach the gospel should live of the gospel.

Learn the bible better.

Your reference in 2 Cor is dealing with people who pervert the word, as you have done with Revelation 1, if you want to know the truth of that verse. Little wonder you are unable to read Rev 1 properly.

[shazeep]

yikes?

[mfblume]

Silence, I see, after several days' worth of hiatus.

[Walks_in_islam]

Originally Posted by mfblume

Silence, I see, after several days' worth of hiatus.

I see you are back. Told you I had to fold the laptop and relocate, which has been done successfully. Weather report: High today was 120 F. Very dusty.

I must defer to your "scholars" on the above. Here is a summary of but one, but they pretty much concur so I have lots and lots of them and if needed I will by God spoon feed them to you one at a time. Below is italicized because it was copied and pasted. Source: ? Charis Bible College ? Spelling is hopefully correct.

In Greek usage, the word "KAPELEUO" ("corrupt") denotes the selling of teaching for money, the merchandising of God's Word for sordid gain (Ac 8:20 and 20:33). What Paul called the corrupting of God's Word was the offering of the Word of God for money, the selling of it, peddling it, and retailing it. This is distinctly different from the principle of receiving gifts as a result of having sown spiritual things (1Co 9:11 and 13-14).

Seems I was bang up dead on accurate with my interpretation and here you are once again misleading your breathless audience of sheeple. Perhaps you should learn the bible better before challenging your betters on such a trivial matter. Selling, peddling, and retailing Jesus on the internet falls accurately under the definition of 'kapeleuo' as outlined above.

[Walks_in_islam]

Originally Posted by Aquila

You need to go back and read what I wrote slowly. I essentially said that Jesus is a man who is one with God. He is both, man... and God. The human tabernacle of God Almighty. Even Muhammed will testify to Jesus being the human tabernacle of God at the judgment.

I read it. I also noted 3 passages where Jesus was with God at the same point in time and Jesus was in one place and God was in another place.

[FlamingZword]

Originally Posted by Walks_in_islam

I read it. I also noted 3 passages where Jesus was with God at the same point in time and Jesus was in one place and God was in another place.

That is pure nonsense, God is omnipresent, he is everywhere at the same time. he can not be confined to a particular place.

[Walks_in_islam]

Originally Posted by FlamingZword

That is pure nonsense, God is omnipresent, he is everywhere at the same time. he can not be confined to a particular place.

In this particular passage He was sitting on His throne. Jesus was not.

What is nonsense is your post. Kindly note that it is pretty numb to draw a conclusion that because a particular passage says God was sitting on His throne handing a scroll to Jesus (who was not on said throne but standing in the middle of those around it) it means "God is confined to His throne" <shakes head>

From Rev 5:

6 And I saw [g]between the throne (with the four living creatures) and the elders a Lamb standing, as if slain, having seven horns and seven eyes, which are the seven Spirits of God, sent out into all the earth. 7 And He came and took the book out of the right hand of Him who sat on the throne.

Original point is this: There is God and God's throne and God is sitting there and then there is Jesus NOT on God's throne at the exact same point in time standing there. Is that clear enough? There is no silly logic that can explain why God has to "split himself in two" to hand a scroll to another part of himself but it sure is entertaining to hear you folks explain these very clear depictions of God's place and Jesus' place away.

There were two other examples of this that were previously shared. Please do not "confine" God based on those examples either. <re-shakes head> WOW

[Walks_in_islam]

Originally Posted by mfblume

Silence, I see, after several days' worth of hiatus.

Silence, I see, after several days' worth of hiatus.

[Walks_in_islam]

Originally Posted by Pressing-On

God’s Word is only confusing if we don’t study it out or have it revealed to us by God.

The clue to the context of “tempted”, in the book of James, would be found in verse 12.

There are two meanings defined in this one chapter:

1. Enticement/solicitation to sin
2. Testing/proving.

“Blessed is the man that endureth temptation: for when he is tried , he shall receive the crown of life, which the Lord hath promised to them that love him.” James 1:12 (KJV)

“ Blessed is the man who perseveres under trial, because when he has stood the test, he will receive the crown of life that God has promised to those who love him.” James 1:12 (NIV)

Temptation - Peirasmos - a putting to proof. From the root word, peirazō - to test.

Peirazo has several meanings, one being “enticed”. In the context of James 1:12, it can only mean persevering under trial.

James 1:14 clearly speaks of enticing and soliciting to sin.

“But every man is tempted , when he is drawn away of his own lust, and enticed .” James 1:14

Lust: epithumia
From G1937; a longing (especially for what is forbidden): - concupiscence, desire, lust (after).



"And it came to pass after these things, that God did tempt Abraham, and said unto him, Abraham: and he said , Behold, here I am." Genesis 22:1

How do we know that Abraham understood that God was not soliciting him to sin?

“And Abraham said unto his young men, Abide ye here with the ass; and I and the lad will go yonder and worship , and come again to you.” Genesis 22:5

He knew it was a test of faith and not an enticement to sin.



“That the trial of your faith, being much more precious than of gold that perisheth , though it be tried with fire, might be found unto praise and honour and glory at the appearing of Jesus Christ:

Trial: dokimion
Neuter of a presumed derivative of G1382; a testing; by implication trustworthiness:

“For we have not an high priest which cannot be touched with the feeling of our infirmities; but was in all points tempted like as we are, yet without sin.” Hebrews 4:15

Infirmities: astheneia
From G772; feebleness (of body or mind); by implication malady; moral frailty: - disease, infirmity, sickness, weakness.

“For such an high priest became us, who is holy, harmless, undefiled, separate from sinners, and made higher than the heavens;” Hebrews 7:26

Conclusion: “God cannot be tempted” would be correct as there is nothing in God that could persuade Him to sin.

“Neither does He tempt any man” would be correct as a solicitation to sin and a trial from providential situation or circumstances are two very different things.

I was teasing a bit in the previous post. The translators of these passages could probably have been vetted a lot better I think