All Trinitarians are Lost!!!!!!!!!!!

[seekerman]

Does anyone know of a trinitarian group which preaches the perverted gospel of denying medical attention to onesself, or your children, in order to please God? You know, the kind of teaching which results in the death of innocent infants, children, women and men who follow the ignorant man who teaches that God isn't pleased, and it might even be a sin, to seek medical attention?

I know of so-called, -self-proclaimed 'apostolics' who preach that very thing. I can take you to the graves of the little children who died under such perverted leadership.

Do we have any 'apostolic' ministers here who have participated and preached in such an perverted religious environment?

[Jay]

Originally Posted by seekerman

Does anyone know of a trinitarian group which preaches the perverted gospel of denying medical attention to onesself, or your children, in order to please God? You know, the kind of teaching which results in the death of innocent infants, children, women and men who follow the ignorant man who teaches that God isn't pleased, and it might even be a sin, to seek medical attention?

I know of so-called, -self-proclaimed 'apostolics' who preach that very thing. I can take you to the graves of the little children who died under such perverted leadership.

Do we have any 'apostolic' ministers here who have participated and preached in such an perverted religious environment?

You can not, have not, and probably will not give us an actually example of a Oneness Preacher who currently preaches that message. There are some who live it personally, and will not go to a doctor. Those that used to preach against it came from an era when doctors had less training and knowledge than a well trained paramedic.

And there are far more Trinitarian groups who espouse that philosophy than Oneness churches. The Jehovah's Witness are one such group (no matter that they deny it, they still baptize Father, Son, Holy Ghost).

[Titus2woman]

Originally Posted by seekerman

Does anyone know of a trinitarian group which preaches the perverted gospel of denying medical attention to onesself, or your children, in order to please God? You know, the kind of teaching which results in the death of innocent infants, children, women and men who follow the ignorant man who teaches that God isn't pleased, and it might even be a sin, to seek medical attention?

I know of so-called, -self-proclaimed 'apostolics' who preach that very thing. I can take you to the graves of the little children who died under such perverted leadership.

Do we have any 'apostolic' ministers here who have participated and preached in such an perverted religious environment?

Originally Posted by Jay

You can not, have not, and probably will not give us an actually example of a Oneness Preacher who currently preaches that message. There are some who live it personally, and will not go to a doctor. Those that used to preach against it came from an era when doctors had less training and knowledge than a well trained paramedic.

And there are far more Trinitarian groups who espouse that philosophy than Oneness churches. The Jehovah's Witness are one such group (no matter that they deny it, they still baptize Father, Son, Holy Ghost).

JW's do not refuse medical treatment, they refuse BLOOD products.

Christian Scientists refuse medical treatment if they want prayer because they believe you can not have BOTH. You either trust God or not.

Apostolic Pentecostals believe that you can be healed by faith or miracles, but also advocate professional medical attention. There has never been a time in our history that any OP organization sanctioned refusal of medical treatment that I can find.

This view is shared by Christendom at large including Catholics and other non-Christian religions including LDS, Islam, Spiritualism, and Wicca.

I took continuing education hours on this last year because it has become a huge problem in medical care. It is not common in OPs and we did not even get a mention in the course material.

[Jay]

Originally Posted by Titus2woman

JW's do not refuse medical treatment, they refuse BLOOD products.

Christian Scientists refuse medical treatment if they want prayer because they believe you can not have BOTH. You either trust God or not.

Apostolic Pentecostals believe that you can be healed by faith or miracles, but also advocate professional medical attention. There has never been a time in our history that any OP organization sanctioned refusal of medical treatment that I can find.

This view is shared by Christendom at large including Catholics and other non-Christian religions including LDS, Islam, Spiritualism, and Wicca.

I took continuing education hours on this last year because it has become a huge problem in medical care. It is not common in OPs and we did not even get a mention in the course material.

I know of a few pastors who advocated that position, but that was at a different time, and I know of none who now live that hold that position.

[Aquila]

Originally Posted by preacherman

Dear Aquila,I also believe that the seventh day (saterday) is the sabbath day.But i also know that we have a spiritual rest in GOD,and that is what the weekly sabbath in the OT. was pointing to.
HEB.4-1thru8: (3)For we which have believed do enter into rest,as HE said,As i have sworn in my wrath,if they shall enter into my rest:although the works were finished from the foundation of the world.

So i keep the sabbath according to the NT.,and the way i do that is by remembering GOD's creation.Yes i do also rest but if i do have to work i don't condemn myself,neither does the Word of GOD.

Rom.14-5,6:One man esteemeth one day above another:another esteemeth evey day alike.Let evey man be fully persuaded in his own mind.(6)He that regardeth the day,regardeth it unto the LORD:and he that regardeth not the day,to the LORD he doth not regard it.

Paul in Rom.14. is explaining how that certain things in the OT. changed.

I do have a quistion for you,can you show how to keep the sabbath in the NT.?Now i know that JESUS and the Apostles worshiped on the sabbath day,but there was some changes that took place after JESUS died on the cross.For JESUS did fulfill the law.

Jesus did fulfill the Law. But it wasn't done away with. Only the handwriting of ordinances (the Law of Moses) was nailed to the cross. Two Laws: Law of God (defines sin)... and The Law of Moses (how to be forgiven of sin). The Law of Moses was nailed to the cross. Sin is still sin (Ten Commandments still stand). However, now we approach through faith in Jesus and our love of God (law of Christ).

So... how should a Christian keep the Sabbath according to the Law of God (Ten Commandments)?

Exodus 20:8-11 (ESV)
8 “Remember the Sabbath day, to keep it holy. 9 Six days you shall labor, and do all your work, 10 but the seventh day is a Sabbath to the LORD your God. On it you shall not do any work, you, or your son, or your daughter, your male servant, or your female servant, or your livestock, or the sojourner who is within your gates. 11 For in six days the LORD made heaven and earth, the sea, and all that is in them, and rested on the seventh day. Therefore the LORD blessed the Sabbath day and made it holy.

-We must REMEMBER the Sabbath day.
-We must make it holy, a time to worship.
-We must rest from working.
-The entire family is to participate.

That's all that God's Law commands regarding the Sabbath. The laws about fire in your dwelling, not traveling, issues about picking up sticks, etc., etc., were part of that handwriting of ordinances that was nailed to the cross. Just remember, rest, worship, family. That's all.

You can gather with the saints and worship. Then go on a nature walk or go fishing. You can have family Bible study. Lounge around the pool with a devotional. That's Sabbath keeping NT style.

P.S.
Minimal work to sustain one's self isn't condemned. The disciples picked corn on the Sabbath. The Sabbath isn't a burden... it's a DELIGHT.

[Aquila]

Originally Posted by Steve Epley

Not one of you guys are keeping the Sabbath day.

Yes we are. We're not keeping the Law of Moses concerning the Sabbath day. We keep the Fourth Commandment regarding the Sabbath day. Challenge me on that. All God commands is as follows:

Exodus 20:8-11 (ESV)
8 “Remember the Sabbath day, to keep it holy. 9 Six days you shall labor, and do all your work, 10 but the seventh day is a Sabbath to the LORD your God. On it you shall not do any work, you, or your son, or your daughter, your male servant, or your female servant, or your livestock, or the sojourner who is within your gates. 11 For in six days the LORD made heaven and earth, the sea, and all that is in them, and rested on the seventh day. Therefore the LORD blessed the Sabbath day and made it holy.

-We must REMEMBER the Sabbath day.
-We must make it holy, a time to worship.
-We must rest from working and refresh, celebrating life and all of creation.
-The entire family is to participate.

Can you prove this wrong? Go ahead... fight and rebel from God's Law. I dare ya.

Some people embrace and LOVE the legalistic traditions of man... but they HATE the Law of God (the Ten Commandments).

[Aquila]

Originally Posted by Hoovie

The fried chicken and combustion engine sort of gets them, eh?

That only violates the Law of Moses. It doesn't violate the Fourth Commandment.

[Aquila]

Originally Posted by Steve Epley

Firstly the manservant-madiservant-nor ass or oxen could work that is equivilant of our power companies. They would have to turn their lights and gas off on the sabbath to keep it. Not down not have an automatic timer like the Jews but they could not burn electricity or use gas on the sabbath.

Don't confuse the handwriting of ordinances with the Law of God. The Fourth Commandment says nothing about power companies. In fact... work that sustains one is permitted. The disciples picked ears of corn on the Sabbath.

It's the Law of Moses we do not keep. It's the Fourth Commandment we seek to keep.

[Titus2woman]

It's really so very simple. They are the Ten Commandments.

It never became the Nine Commandments or the Nine Commandments and one suggestion.

They either is or they aint... In or out...Which is it?

[bbyrd009]

Originally Posted by Steve Epley

In memory of a thread by the same name. Still believe unless a person has obeyed Acts 2:38 and believes in the absolute Oneness of God in Christ Jesus. You are lost. If you support a trinity church you are lost. NOT rejoicing but those are the facts.

Pardon me but I come from this pov, and this is about as death centered as it gets; and you admit it in your last sentence. This can only come from an accuser, and by definition the only ones it edifies are "lost." I don't even really know what a "Trinitarian" is, but see that that is of no consequence whatsoever. Am I saying that I think you are "lost?" No, but I have a different conception of "lost" from you, now, and I am saying this title directly contradicts scripture; I am not to judge this where you are concerned.

We are much too literal-minded as people, me included, and understand "Saved/Lost" like a child understands "Adult/Child," as if a switch gets thrown or something.

Just picture it; it's the separation of sheep and goats, and the unwitting sheep have just entered in, amazed; but there you stand with your Bible, open to Acts 2:38...

I hope this serves you.