There Has Been A Change

[stmatthew]

Originally Posted by Praxeas

Yes he DID mention his Feelings. CR is right...it's not like he saw an old friend. He "felt" something. He said it. He said he was wrestling with feelings too. Feelings are subjective and they can cause your thinking to be skewed just as being a friend to someone can do the same.

Im sure MB would not like to find out that someone posted he has a demonic spirit working through him.....

Go back and read the initial post...... on second thought don't. You are right.

It is obvious you don't understand what "knowing by the Spirit" means, as you continue to make everything a "feelings" issue.

But you are right, and everyone else is wrong.

[CC1]

I might also add that it is foolish to judge a person's standing with God based on his wealth since some of the most evil people on this planet are blessed with material goods.

I recently watched a documentary on Lottery winners and the two biggest winners profiled lived profane lives. One couple was a male gay couple from CA who have been "partners" for over 20 years.

The other was a man who before he won the lottery had divorced his wife and was living and sleeping with two sisters, one of whom had his child.

However he had a substance abuse problem that caused those relationships to end (not to mention trying to live with two sisters and keep both happy I imagine!!!) and he ended up destitute and asking his exwife to let him live in the basement of the home they had once shared. It was during that time he won the lottery and then actually did something decent by remarrying his wife!! It also showed where he had givne a lot of money to a ministry and he talked about God a lot so maybe he did straighten out at least some.

Anyway many very successful and wealthy people. Those seemingly "blessed" are some of the most sinful human beings on earth. That doesn't make money or wealth evil in itself but it shows that it is not a measure by which to judge whether someone has God's favor in their life.

[mizpeh]

Originally Posted by Praxeas

but it's still being "felt" or part of your feelings. I have heard folks say they "felt" this or that in the Spirit and in fact it was not in the Spirit. Feelings are subjective and we better not only be careful but have more than just one persons "I felt it in the Spirit"...especially when the conclusion is that this man is not a man of God anymore but a man of the devil. My goodness!

Prax,

These were not my natural feelings. When I say I 'felt' a spirit or the presence of a spirit, it was not something I felt on the inside of me. I literally felt the presence of a spirit, an evil spirit.

When I said I felt something in the pit of my being, I seriously felt a sinking feeling within me. It's very hard to explain and it has only happened to me once that I can remember. It stayed with me for more than a few days and only left after I heard from God. If you feel nauseated in the natural, you vomit. If you feel nauseated in your spirit, there is nothing you can do but seek God.

I agree with you about calling someone a false prophet unless the Spirit of God tells to do so. The only way we can know for sure is if those things they speak come to pass and/or if the prophecy doesn't contradict the word of God.

1 Kings 22:23 Now therefore, behold, the LORD hath put a lying spirit in the mouth of all these thy prophets, and the LORD hath spoken evil concerning thee.
24 But Zedekiah the son of Chenaanah went near, and smote Micaiah on the cheek, and said, Which way went the Spirit of the LORD from me to speak unto thee?
25 And Micaiah said, Behold, thou shalt see in that day, when thou shalt go into an inner chamber to hide thyself.
26 And the king of Israel said, Take Micaiah, and carry him back unto Amon the governor of the city, and to Joash the king's son;
27 And say, Thus saith the king, Put this fellow in the prison, and feed him with bread of affliction and with water of affliction, until I come in peace.
28 And Micaiah said, If thou return at all in peace, the LORD hath not spoken by me. And he said, Hearken, O people, every one of you.

Deut 13:1 If there arise among you a prophet, or a dreamer of dreams, and giveth thee a sign or a wonder,
2 And the sign or the wonder come to pass, whereof he spake unto thee, saying, Let us go after other gods, which thou hast not known, and let us serve them;
3 Thou shalt not hearken unto the words of that prophet, or that dreamer of dreams: for the LORD your God proveth you, to know whether ye love the LORD your God with all your heart and with all your soul.

Originally Posted by ChTatum

I am NOT espousing this as doctrine, it just came to my mind as I read your post.....

There was a period of silence before the first coming of Christ......

Elder Strange,
I am tired of the emotionalism that proclaims "WE HAD CHURCH TONIGHT!"


I have been in many services where God moved mightily and no one shouted, ran, or danced in the Spirit. But the altars were full of those crying and seeking God.

In talking with a sister this past week, she told of one church she had attended where people, especially young people, would shout so that people would STOP praying for them, dragging them to the altar, and shaking them mercilessly, pushing their heads back, screaming "let go" in one ear and "hang on" in the other. They shouted for self-preservation, not because they felt anything from God.

And competitive holiness marches on.....

Aint it the truth. I've seen so much of it too. A lot of it borders on Baal worship.

[mizpeh]

Originally Posted by CC1

I might also add that it is foolish to judge a person's standing with God based on his wealth since some of the most evil people on this planet are blessed with material goods.

I recently watched a documentary on Lottery winners and the two biggest winners profiled lived profane lives. One couple was a male gay couple from CA who have been "partners" for over 20 years.

The other was a man who at the time he won the lottery had divorced his wife and was living and sleeping with two sisters, one of whom had his child.
However he had a substance abuse problem that caused those relationships to end (not to mention trying to live with two sisters and keep both happy I imagine!!!) and he ended up destitute and asking his exwife to let him live in the basement of the home they had once shared. It was during that time he won the lottery and then actually did something decent by remarrying his wife!! It also showed where he had givne a lot of money to a ministry and he talked about God a lot so maybe he did straighten out at least some.

Anyway many very successful and wealthy people. Those seemingly "blessed" are some of the most sinful human beings on earth. That doesn't make money or wealth evil in itself but it shows that it is not a measure by which to judge whether someone has God's favor in their life.

God looks at things very differently than man does. Does being the biggest, richest church mean it is the most spiritual, in-tune church?

8 And unto the angel of the church in Smyrna write; These things saith the first and the last, which was dead, and is alive; 9 I know thy works, and tribulation, and poverty, (but thou art rich) and I know the blasphemy of them which say they are Jews, and are not, but are the synagogue of Satan. 10 Fear none of those things which thou shalt suffer: behold, the devil shall cast some of you into prison, that ye may be tried; and ye shall have tribulation ten days: be thou faithful unto death, and I will give thee a crown of life. 11 He that hath an ear, let him hear what the Spirit saith unto the churches; He that overcometh shall not be hurt of the second death.

14 And unto the angel of the church of the Laodiceans write; These things saith the Amen, the faithful and true witness, the beginning of the creation of God; 15 I know thy works, that thou art neither cold nor hot: I would thou wert cold or hot. 16 So then because thou art lukewarm, and neither cold nor hot, I will spue thee out of my mouth. 17 Because thou sayest, I am rich, and increased with goods, and have need of nothing; and knowest not that thou art wretched, and miserable, and poor, and blind, and naked: 18 I counsel thee to buy of me gold tried in the fire, that thou mayest be rich; and white raiment, that thou mayest be clothed, and that the shame of thy nakedness do not appear; and anoint thine eyes with eyesalve, that thou mayest see

[mizpeh]

Originally Posted by Brother Strange

Aint it the truth. I've seen so much of it too. A lot of it borders on Baal worship.

How was the service tonight?

[CC1]

Originally Posted by mizpeh

God looks at things very differently than man does. Does being the biggest, richest church mean it is the most spiritual, in-tune church?

Only in the case of Christ Church Nashville.

[tv1a]

I understand you point about greed, but I do not see scriptural evidence which suggest a giver should not expect anything in return. To take this statement to its logical conclusion, one should not expect a harvest of souls when they outreach. Many people pray for new converts for a variety of reasons, not all reasons are virtuous and noble. Do we stop reaching out because there may be a person wanting that sinner because they may be wealthy, or they may be a good singer, or a good carpenter?

What kind of person would I be if I went to a job after being promised a salary and not expect a paycheck? You'd think I were nuts... The Bible has promised us a lot of good things.

It appears you have a difficult time separating expectation from greed. I expect what the Bible promise to come true. That doesn't make me a greedy person.

Balance is vital for sustain wealth. A scripture that provides easy reference is:
1 Chron 4:10
10 And Jabez called on the God of Israel saying, "Oh, that You would bless me indeed, and enlarge my territory, that Your hand would be with me, and that You would keep me from evil, that I may not cause pain!" So God granted him what he requested.

One writer put it like this: God, you choose the blessing and put me in the position to receive what you have. Allow me to have influence so others will come to know your grace and mercy. Be with me every step of the way, and give me the spiritual foresight to avoide trouble and from disappointing you.

I would like to see more biblical references to your comments. Your post seems to be be in direct opposition to the definition of faith. I'm not sure I'm understanding you comments.

Originally Posted by CC1

Any blessings we get from God are a byproduct from giving with the expectation of nothing in return. Giving because it is out of our heart, not from greed to receive more than we have given.

Originally Posted by mizpeh

How was the service tonight?

Great!

I posted as much a little earlier. Go back and read it and you will see that I am greatly encouraged. I had made up my mind to leave after service tonight if there was not a different spirit. There was.

I also need to add that some of the craziness need to be curbed. I am no official nor am I a UPCI preacher though I have universally supported it for all my life. Some of the craziness is all the sommersaults that were performed tonight One nit-wit ran up front started doing head-over-heels sommersaults from one side of the tabernacle to the other. People like that can easily be led into all sorts of craziness like ol' Rodney Howard led so many people. Some of the barked like dogs, some neighed like horses, others clucked like chickens and still others laughed their stupid heads off under a spirit of hysteria. I've had them to come into my meetings too. I stop it before it gets started. Let everything be done decently and in order.

[CC1]

Originally Posted by tv1a

I understand you point about greed, but I do not see scriptural evidence which suggest a giver should not expect anything in return. To take this statement to its logical conclusion, one should not expect a harvest of souls when they outreach. Many people pray for new converts for a variety of reasons, not all reasons are virtuous and noble. Do we stop reaching out because there may be a person wanting that sinner because they may be wealthy, or they may be a good singer, or a good carpenter?

What kind of person would I be if I went to a job after being promised a salary and not expect a paycheck? You'd think I were nuts... The Bible has promised us a lot of good things.

It appears you have a difficult time separating expectation from greed. I expect what the Bible promise to come true. That doesn't make me a greedy person.

Balance is vital for sustain wealth. A scripture that provides easy reference is:
1 Chron 4:10
10 And Jabez called on the God of Israel saying, "Oh, that You would bless me indeed, and enlarge my territory, that Your hand would be with me, and that You would keep me from evil, that I may not cause pain!" So God granted him what he requested.

One writer put it like this: God, you choose the blessing and put me in the position to receive what you have. Allow me to have influence so others will come to know your grace and mercy. Be with me every step of the way, and give me the spiritual foresight to avoide trouble and from disappointing you.

I would like to see more biblical references to your comments. Your post seems to be be in direct opposition to the definition of faith. I'm not sure I'm understanding you comments.

I think you are correct that my choice of the word "expectation" in the part of my post you quoted was not a good one. I should have said with an "attitude" of giving for purposes other than the expectation of receiving.

With the prosperity gospel the "expectation of receiving" becomes the motivation for the giving and that is what is wrong. While there is a general law of sowing and reaping and of God's blessing there are many detours, interupptions, etc in those blessings many times. So there is not always a linear path between sowing good things and reaping good things. For some folks the reaping may not be material things at all.