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  #231  
Old 09-03-2019, 11:51 AM
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Michael The Disciple Michael The Disciple is offline
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Re: One In The Greek

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The only times I would use Yeshua would be worshipping in a Hebrew context, e.g. in Israel. Some songs by the group Lamb are pretty.

The pure Bible makes it very clear that his name is JESUS.
Why minimize the name Yeshua? There is nothing wrong with using the Hebrew name.
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  #232  
Old 09-03-2019, 01:27 PM
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Michael The Disciple Michael The Disciple is offline
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Re: One In The Greek

Steven said:

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Actually, nothing is demanded about person or persons, they are not in view in John 10:30, you have to change the text to claim that John 10:30 is about person or persons.
Persons are not in view?

I and my Father are one. John 10:30

Jesus said "I" and my "Father".

Seems like persons from here.
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  #233  
Old 09-03-2019, 01:31 PM
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Michael The Disciple Michael The Disciple is offline
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Re: One In The Greek

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Originally Posted by rdp View Post
*”Yehoshua” - which later contracted to the shorter form “Yeshua.” Very similar to OT Joshua.

*On another note, might just be easier to dialogue about these types of matter via email (just too many unnecessary [& mind boggling] “distractions” in here). I have tons of word-documents I can send you, replete w. lexical and grammatical quotations if interested. Can PM me (might take me a few days to respond since I don’t usually check in on here...for obvious reasons). Pretty much done w. this thread. Just the normative experience on AFF.

*God bless.
Thanks for responding. No need to go farther. I have been calling the Lord "Yeshua" for many years. Just wanted to get your opinion.
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  #234  
Old 09-03-2019, 03:13 PM
Steven Avery Steven Avery is offline
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Re: One In The Greek

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Originally Posted by Michael The Disciple View Post
Steven said:
Persons are not in view?
I and my Father are one. John 10:30
Jesus said "I" and my "Father".
Seems like persons from here.
Is God the Father a person?

According to trins, he is one of three persons. In a sense, once you apply “Persons” to ontology, you are singing their song.

However, the actual Bible text says nothing about “persons”, context is king.
The text itself can have various interps.

Last edited by Steven Avery; 09-03-2019 at 03:27 PM.
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  #235  
Old 09-03-2019, 03:17 PM
Steven Avery Steven Avery is offline
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Re: One In The Greek

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Originally Posted by Michael The Disciple View Post
Why minimize the name Yeshua? There is nothing wrong with using the Hebrew name.
My pure Bible reads Jesus. My language is English.

And I did indicate an acceptability in a Hebrew context for Yeshua.

Not, however, the dark-side yahweh or the crony of connivance yahshua, yahuah, yahushua, etc. Counterfeits, at best.
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  #236  
Old 09-03-2019, 04:24 PM
Costeon Costeon is offline
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Re: One In The Greek

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Originally Posted by Esaias View Post
1. I was saying you have been misunderstanding Oneness Christologies, then pointed out (in my post to brother Avery) the likely reason why people misunderstand them - because of presentation, in a large measure.

2. Brother Bernard's theology in his works (that I have read) don't really get as indepth as he perhaps could have. They also suffer from the common "as man He did X, as God He did Y" which I think is both an oversimplification and in fact misleading to a certain extent.

3. I usually pray "Father, ... in the name of Jesus" or some such. I also pray "Jesus, ..." I have sought to pray as Biblically as possible as long as I've been a Christian (over a quarter of a century now!) yet I'm as "Oneness" as it gets. Most of the brethren I've known over the years pray similarly.

4. I acknowledge there are few oneness pentecostal books on theology or doctrine worth reading. But then again, I think the same about trinitarian works, except there's exponentially more volume on the trinitarian side.

5. Rather than trying to figure out Bernard or Sabin or whoever, I worry about figuring out the Bible. And it begins very simply, like this:

The Bible gives certain parameters - there is one God, God is One, He is Spirit. He was manifested in flesh, the Word which was God became flesh, this is the Son of God Jesus Christ. Jesus is a man, Jesus is our God. The parameters are One God, Jesus is a man, Jesus is God. So Jesus is that One God existing as a human being, a man.

We can speculate about the metaphysics, and as long as we don't cross any of the Bible's parameters (contradicting it's plain statements) we'll prolly be fine. We get into trouble when our speculations lead to conclusions or results that contradict the Bible's statements. That's when we have to revise our thinking and bring it back in line with Scripture.

We also need to keep in mind this is the great mystery of the faith, as Paul called it, so any explanations we offer are bound to contain error or be misunderstood unless we just stick with the Bible's declarations. It's a great mystery, but that doesn't necessarily mean it's a super complex theological philosophical conundrum, as trinitarians would like to believe about their position.
Well said, Esaias. I really appreciate what you've written and like the parameters that you've laid out to guide discussions of Christology.
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  #237  
Old 09-03-2019, 04:34 PM
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Re: One In The Greek

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Originally Posted by Steven Avery View Post
Is God the Father a person?

According to trins, he is one of three persons. In a sense, once you apply “Persons” to ontology, you are singing their song.

However, the actual Bible text says nothing about “persons”, context is king.
The text itself can have various interps.
So when Jesus said "I" is HE not a person?

Just because a Trin admits God is a person wont stop me from believing he is. Not to many Trins think I am singing their song.

Anyway you had said in John 10:30 that PERSON or persons were not in view.

If so why is it a cornerstone of Oneness theology?
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  #238  
Old 09-03-2019, 05:11 PM
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Re: One In The Greek

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Originally Posted by Michael The Disciple View Post
Why minimize the name Yeshua? There is nothing wrong with using the Hebrew name.
Because you speak English. You don’t speak Hebrew.
You do it for a totally different reason.
Do English speakers use Jesus’ Chinese name? His Wakandian Name?
Good grief, you want truth blah blah, but then you go spouting off in YAH, and Yahshua.
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  #239  
Old 09-03-2019, 05:17 PM
Steven Avery Steven Avery is offline
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Re: One In The Greek

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Originally Posted by Michael The Disciple View Post
So when Jesus said "I" is HE not a person?
Jesus walked the earth as a person.

(In fact, strict trinitarian doctrine says he was not a human person.)

Quote:
Originally Posted by Michael The Disciple View Post
Anyway you had said in John 10:30 that PERSON or persons were not in view.
The actual words of the text do no impel any interpretation regarding persons. From the oneness view, one being might be better, but would be exceedingly awkward.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Michael The Disciple View Post
If so why is it a cornerstone of Oneness theology?
Is it?
You think it is really saying .. the Father and I are one person?

We can allow that as an interpretation, but the text says no such thing.

Read the text.
Stay close to the scripture text.

Last edited by Steven Avery; 09-03-2019 at 06:11 PM.
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  #240  
Old 09-03-2019, 06:36 PM
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Michael The Disciple Michael The Disciple is offline
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Re: One In The Greek

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Because you speak English. You don’t speak Hebrew.
Is it therefore sin? To call Yeshua by his Hebrew name? After all he was never called Jesus till centuries later.

And as I always say Jesus is the greatest name in the English language.

Quote:
Do English speakers use Jesus’ Chinese name? His Wakandian Name?
Good grief, you want truth blah blah, but then you go spouting off in YAH, and Yahshua.
If English speakers used his name in Chinese...is that a sin?

Spouting off in YAH?

Are you sure you want to go there?
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