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  #231  
Old 07-20-2017, 10:06 AM
Jermyn Davidson's Avatar
Jermyn Davidson Jermyn Davidson is offline
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Re: Psychiatry An Industry Of Death Full Length

Quote:
Originally Posted by JoeBandy View Post
I enjoy the exchange, but I guess your definition of respect and mine aint exactly the same. However. IMO EB is very different!!
We are all different and have our quirks and kinks.

But we have more in common than what separates us.

Besides, I said what I said for EB's sake. He'll get it!

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  #232  
Old 07-20-2017, 10:15 AM
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Re: Psychiatry An Industry Of Death Full Length

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Originally Posted by houston View Post
Well, nevermind.
Do tell.
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  #233  
Old 07-20-2017, 10:19 AM
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Re: Psychiatry An Industry Of Death Full Length

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Originally Posted by Jermyn Davidson View Post
How is it that we can automatically write this woman off as unsaved right now (or at the point of the conversation)?

Do they not believe in baptism?

Doesn't her faith bare out the reality that she has been born again of the Spirit of God?

Doesn't Paul criticize the factions that were forming within the Corinthian church based on baptisms? Could the Oneness Pentecostals who insist that all are lost unless they are baptized in the Name of "Jesus Christ" be stumbling on the same issue that Paul deemed necessary to correct within his church?
Either there's a clear, Biblical definition of "getting saved" or not. If there is, then we can determine within about .02 seconds if someone has "got saved" or not. If there isn't, then we're all wasting our time and should probably find a more productive hobby than religion.
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  #234  
Old 07-20-2017, 10:22 AM
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Re: Psychiatry An Industry Of Death Full Length

Quote:
Originally Posted by Esaias View Post
Either there's a clear, Biblical definition of "getting saved" or not. If there is, then we can determine within about .02 seconds if someone has "got saved" or not. If there isn't, then we're all wasting our time and should probably find a more productive hobby than religion.

Romans 10:9-10English Standard Version (ESV)

9 because, if you confess with your mouth that Jesus is Lord and believe in your heart that God raised him from the dead, you will be saved. 10 For with the heart one believes and is justified, and with the mouth one confesses and is saved.



***EDITED***

This is the moment in time that person is saved and everything else that follows the believer and everything else the believer does is subsequent to salvation.
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Last edited by Jermyn Davidson; 07-20-2017 at 11:00 AM.
  #235  
Old 07-20-2017, 10:51 AM
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Re: Psychiatry An Industry Of Death Full Length

Quote:
Originally Posted by Jermyn Davidson View Post
Romans 10:9-10English Standard Version (ESV)

9 because, if you confess with your mouth that Jesus is Lord and believe in your heart that God raised him from the dead, you will be saved. 10 For with the heart one believes and is justified, and with the mouth one confesses and is saved.


This is the point of salvation.
No, the point of salvation is to glorify God.

The means of salvation is called obeying the gospel. And the occasion of confessing the Lord while believing in the heart is baptism (Acts 22:16). And the sign or token of salvation is the gift of the Holy Ghost.
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  #236  
Old 07-20-2017, 10:58 AM
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Re: Psychiatry An Industry Of Death Full Length

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Originally Posted by Esaias View Post
No, the point of salvation is to glorify God.

The means of salvation is called obeying the gospel. And the occasion of confessing the Lord while believing in the heart is baptism (Acts 22:16). And the sign or token of salvation is the gift of the Holy Ghost.
I get what you did there. Maybe I can change my wording to reflect the reality that a person is saved upon the confession of their faith.

Of course not everyone who makes the profession has a heart that is transformed and being transformed by the Holy Ghost, but the same can be said by people who get baptized and even speak in tongues who are still on their way to hell.
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  #237  
Old 07-20-2017, 06:00 PM
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Re: Psychiatry An Industry Of Death Full Length

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Originally Posted by Aquila View Post
I understand your perspective. However, I think it isn't biblical. For example, how do we know this "Mainstream Baptist Chrismatic Calvinist" pastor's wife will NEVER be converted and born of the water and the Spirit in Jesus name?

We can debate the odds all day long. But, the truth is... we don't know with any certainty if she will prove to be wheat or a tare. Evidently, you have yet to internalize and learn the applied meaning of Christ's parable.
Cast not you pearl before swine and give not what is Holy unto dogs. Because they get upset and rip you apart. Bro, the only reason why we even go round and round in here is because we are members of a forum. Esaias is 100% correct the wheat have no friends. But what that means is that we don't agree to disagree. No matter what anyone believes the Apostolics are the pitchers not the catchers
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  #238  
Old 07-20-2017, 06:18 PM
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Esaias Esaias is offline
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Re: Psychiatry An Industry Of Death Full Length

Quote:
Originally Posted by Jermyn Davidson View Post
Romans 10:9-10English Standard Version (ESV)

9 because, if you confess with your mouth that Jesus is Lord and believe in your heart that God raised him from the dead, you will be saved. 10 For with the heart one believes and is justified, and with the mouth one confesses and is saved.



***EDITED***

This is the moment in time that person is saved and everything else that follows the believer and everything else the believer does is subsequent to salvation.
Then repentance is not necessary to being saved. One can confess Jesus and believe in their heart God raised Him from the dead, while maintaining any number of sins, and still be considered "saved" according to your misrepresentation of the Scripture.
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  #239  
Old 07-20-2017, 09:05 PM
Aquila Aquila is offline
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Re: Psychiatry An Industry Of Death Full Length

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Originally Posted by Evang.Benincasa View Post
Cast not you pearl before swine and give not what is Holy unto dogs. Because they get upset and rip you apart. Bro, the only reason why we even go round and round in here is because we are members of a forum. Esaias is 100% correct the wheat have no friends. But what that means is that we don't agree to disagree. No matter what anyone believes the Apostolics are the pitchers not the catchers
I get your point.

Ah, but can you identify the who will ultimately be found to be wheat and who will be found to be tares?
  #240  
Old 07-21-2017, 02:40 AM
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Re: Psychiatry An Industry Of Death Full Length

2 Corinthians 7:1,

Having therefore these promises, dearly beloved, let us cleanse ourselves from all filthiness of the flesh and spirit, perfecting holiness in the fear of God.

Are mental illnesses, perceived as such, biological or material concerns of the brain and its chemistry, or are they result of "filthiness of the...spirit"?

Can the inner workings of a man or woman be so perverted and destitute from sin and immorality, that they become infected with an illness of mind that only God can cure?

If the cause of mental illness is spiritual, whether by the internal actions and subsequent consequences of sin, or through an external agency such as evil spirits, how can anything but the Lord truly heal and deliver a person from such a state?

Now, if mental illness is NOT a result of sin and immorality or the workings of evil spirits, then sure, treating it in a way that is not spiritual, but natural, would make sense.

But who can prove the difference between them? For the first, one can look at the Holy Scriptures and make a sound case with little effort involved. For the second, what does one look to? Medical journals? Personal anecdotes? Professional opinions?

Perhaps those three and other things as well. But here's the kicker! None of those things, the medical journals, and etc. will ever tell you a single thing about the possibility of someone's mental illness being due to that person's own iniquity. God won't even factor in, in terms of a possible solution, as far as the secular model of how to treat mental illness is concerned. The secular model says that since God can't be found under a microscope, He is non-existent. Therefore, anything that is claimed about Him is likewise claimed to be non-existent, that is, unverifiable, that is, a waste of time.

But then we say, "Someone we know personally, who is filled with the Holy Spirit and immersed in the name of Jesus, and is living an upright, holy life still struggles with mental illness, so their mental illness can't be a result of sin or immorality".

To which I reply: Is there still a law of sin in their members? Does their flesh still lust against the Spirit, and vice versa? Is the Enemy still throwing his fiery darts? Does temptation continue? Is double-mindedness still a potential problem for saints today?

The answer to all these questions is "YES". And guess what? All of those things lead to issues and problems of a spiritual nature that are first experienced in the mind.

Look closely, for example, at double-mindedness. James wrote that a double-minded man is unstable (mentally ill???) in all his ways (See James 1:8). What does it mean to be double-minded?

The Greek word is dipsychos. It's a compound word made up of two parts. The first part is dis, meaning "two", and psuche meaning "soul". So, to be double-minded is to be "two-souled".

See:

http://biblehub.com/interlinear/james/1-8.htm
http://biblehub.com/greek/1374.htm

HELPS Word Studies, at the first link above declares the following:

Quote:
..."double-minded," i.e. a person "split in half," vacillating like a "spiritual schizophrenic."
There's your mental illness. It's being "two-souled", being split in half between two poles, each magnetically pulling on a person's soul. One pole is the Holy One. The other is the unholy one. What does James say the double-minded person ought to do?

James 4:8,

Draw nigh to God, and he will draw nigh to you. Cleanse your hands, ye sinners; and purify your hearts, ye double minded.

You may say that a person is serving God wholeheartedly with grace and gratitude, and that everything is right and well with their soul, but you can't really know that. Only God can. So, to say that someone in the church is mentally ill, and it's not because of sin or immorality is beyond anyone's ability to confirm or deny, since God is the only one who knows.

Take a look at Matthew 18, the very last portions of the chapter. Jesus said His Heavenly Father will turn a believer over to be tortured if any unforgiveness is found inside of that believer. Are the mentally ill tortured by their illness? Is it possible their torture stems from unforgiveness?

I personally witnessed a woman come to a meeting, who was so drugged up she could barely keep her head up. She had just gotten out of a psychiatric hospital. I talked with her the best that I could about Matthew 18 and unforgiveness. She could hardly follow my words, but the word "unforgiveness" stuck with her. I didn't see her again for awhile. The next time I saw her, she was clear-headed, and much healthier in appearance and demeanor. We talked and she told me she remembered what I said about unforgiveness, even though the rest of what I had said to her was just a blur, and so, she searched her heart and sure enough, found unforgiveness toward her parents from when she was a child, and from the heart, forgave them. She received the Holy Spirit and I immersed her the name of Jesus Christ for the forgiveness of her sins.

She's been sound and safe and free from mental illness ever since. Was this a random, capricious act of God, in which He did for one what He seemingly refuses to do for others? Or rather, is this merely the way He designed things to be and it's available to all who submit themselves to the process?

You decide. I know what I believe about it. But at the very least, take it into consideration. Secret guilt, shame, humiliation, condemnation can all derive their existence from a tiny little speck of pride and a stubborn unwillingness to confess the fault that led to the guilt, shame, humiliation, and/or condemnation. They are two sides of the same coin. You flip the coin once, you're going to get one or the other. It's just a fact. No need to parse words about it. Take it or leave it as you wish.
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Last edited by votivesoul; 07-21-2017 at 02:43 AM.
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