Apostolic But Not Believing Jesus is The Father?

[jfrog]

Originally Posted by good samaritan

A wise christian will never reject the scripture. As far as having my cake and eating it too I don't know what you mean? There isn't any selfish motives in why I believe oneness the way I do. If the Bible taught the trinity (which it doesn't) then I would be arguing a different case.

Jesus is God in the flesh and He is seated on the throne for all eternity and that is backed up by scripture. Jesus is God revealed to all mankind. One day every shall bow and every tongue shall confess.

The person who is God both died and cannot die.
The person who is God was both tempted and cannot be tempted.
The person who is God did not know the hour of his return and yet he also did know the hour of his return.

Thus is the incarnation. Saying that God was tempted doesn't make the scripture untrue that says God cannot be tempted.

[good samaritan]

The person who is God both died and cannot die.

What scripture says this?

The person who is God was both tempted and cannot be tempted.

What scripture says this?

The person who is God did not know the hour of his return and yet he also did know the hour of his return.

Again I need a scripture.

If you are just putting together the pieces and telling me what you think that is philosophy. I think we are safer just to go by what the Bible says.

Col. 2:8 Beware lest any man spoil you through philosophy and vain deceit, after the tradition of men, after the rudiments of the world, and not after Christ. 9 For in him dwelleth all the fulness of the Godhead bodily

[jfrog]

Originally Posted by good samaritan

What scripture says this?



What scripture says this?



Again I need a scripture.

If you are just putting together the pieces and telling me what you think that is philosophy. I think we are safer just to go by what the Bible says.

Where does the bible say Jesus is God?

[Praxeas]

Originally Posted by Aquila

It depends on how one defines "person". Let's start where we know we agree. There is only one "divine person", that is the Father, aka God.

The human being (the man) Jesus Christ is the express image of God's own person in full humanity. Therefore, He is the perfect reflection of the Father's own person. Because of this we can say that we see the person of the Father in Him. But there is a distinction. In Christ there is a distinct human mind, a human will, human spirit. He's not just a body.

From conception, this full humanity was inseparably one with the Father. This means that there is an unexplainable and inseparable union of the divine essence with the human essence. Therefore, through this union each nature partakes in the very essence of the other. Thus, in Christ, God becomes man... and that man was born being a man... but also God.

No analogy is perfect. But I have tried to explain it by saying, imagine that we have two half full wine glasses. One has wine... the other has water. Now, let's pour them together into one glass. What is in the filled glass, wine or water? Both. God poured Himself into the zygote that became the man Jesus Christ. What therefore is this man, is He man or God? Both.

It sounds like you are equating Nature to Person.

[Praxeas]

Originally Posted by Sean

God died? Please explain

Been there. Done that. Read what we've wrote on that already

[Praxeas]

Originally Posted by good samaritan

flesh=son
spirit=father

I am not uncomfortable to use terminology Jesus the son of God are you?

So the Son was not a person? just a flesh (whatever that means)...flesh as in skin?

Who died for your sins? Did someone die for you or was it just something that died?

If someone is He then someone OTHER than God or the same Someone?

[Praxeas]

Originally Posted by Aquila

It depends on how one defines "person". Let's start where we know we agree. There is only one "divine person", that is the Father, aka God.

The human being (the man) Jesus Christ is the express image of God's own person in full humanity. Therefore, He is the perfect reflection of the Father's own person. Because of this we can say that we see the person of the Father in Him. But there is a distinction. In Christ there is a distinct human mind, a human will, human spirit. He's not just a body.

From conception, this full humanity was inseparably one with the Father. This means that there is an unexplainable and inseparable union of the divine essence with the human essence. Therefore, through this union each nature partakes in the very essence of the other. Thus, in Christ, God becomes man... and that man was born being a man... but also God.

No analogy is perfect. But I have tried to explain it by saying, imagine that we have two half full wine glasses. One has wine... the other has water. Now, let's pour them together into one glass. What is in the filled glass, wine or water? Both. God poured Himself into the zygote that became the man Jesus Christ. What therefore is this man, is He man or God? Both.

Aquila, please answer my questions

[Praxeas]

Originally Posted by Praxeas

Is He who died the same He who Eternally existed as God?

Or is HE who died someone OTHER than God?

Is He who was tempted the same HE who created everything as God?

Or is He who was tempted someone OTHER than He who created everything?

These are my questions to everyone

[Aquila]

Originally Posted by Praxeas

These are my questions to everyone

Is He who died the same He who Eternally existed as God?

Or is HE who died someone OTHER than God?

Is He who was tempted the same HE who created everything as God?

Or is He who was tempted someone OTHER than He who created everything?

Jesus said,

John 10:30
30 I and my Father are one. (KJV)

Jesus went on to say that this "oneness" was more than merely a union in purpose, mind, or desire. In fact, it is a union of being:

John 12:45
45 And he that seeth me seeth him that sent me. (KJV)

Let's look at how Jesus explained this "oneness" to Phillip:

John 14:7-10
7 If ye had known me, ye should have known my Father also: and from henceforth ye know him, and have seen him.
8 Philip saith unto him, Lord, shew us the Father, and it sufficeth us.
9 Jesus saith unto him, Have I been so long time with you, and yet hast thou not known me, Philip? he that hath seen me hath seen the Father; and how sayest thou then, Shew us the Father?
10 Believest thou not that I am in the Father, and the Father in me? the words that I speak unto you I speak not of myself: but the Father that dwelleth in me, he doeth the works. (KJV)

Therefore, while both the Father and the Son are distinct, it is through this union of being that the Father shares in all that the Son is... and the Son shares in all that the Father is.

So, with the above in mind, let's look at your questions:

Is He who died the same He who Eternally existed as God?

Yes.

Or is HE who died someone OTHER than God?

Yes.

Is He who was tempted the same HE who created everything as God?

Yes.

Or is He who was tempted someone OTHER than He who created everything?

Yes.

[Aquila]

Originally Posted by Praxeas

It sounds like you are equating Nature to Person.

Praxeas, here are a few of my questions:

Can a "nature" pray? Or do "persons" pray?

Would not what you call the "human nature" have a "human person" as part of it's intrinsic identity?

Would not the "person" of that "human nature" pray to the Father?

And is that not what we see in Scripture?