#1. No one has elaborated on why the "magick" in the bible must have been "real" and not just illusions / power of suggestion.
The lone passage that 'Toot referenced (Exodus 7) was clearly written 1,000 years after the Exodus itself. This makes it difficult to determine the exact intent of the writer(s). Was the writer intending to give a literal account of every detail described? Or was the writer employing one of several literally genres to illustrate a point?
In any event, Exodus 7:13, attributes these events to a broader program whereby God Himself is said to have been working to "harden the heart of Pharaoh." Whatever did happen, or appeared to happen or was said to have happened, it was God's work and not the "power" of a "sorcerer."
In 2 Timothy 3:1-9, Paul sums up the activity of blasphemous men in these "latter days." He compares them to the two "sorcerers" from Pharaoh's court who had "withstood Moses." Interestingly, Paul even uses the names of these "sorcerers" - (Jannes and Jambres, 2 Timothy 3:8) - names not provided by the Word of God, but from an old Jewish legend.
Read down the list of deeds that are attributed to such "sorcerers." Never once do you see any mention of "magick" or "supernatural power" nor even the ability to call and control "spirits."
Instead, Paul references the exact same passage that Flutemaker did, except Paul uses this to warn of "heady, highminded" and "proud boasters" and "false accusers" who go about "creeping into houses" to deceive the people of God.
Forget those fairy tales of "magick," I'm standing with the Apostle Paul on this and warning of deception.
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Originally Posted by jfrog
#2. No one has offered any evidence that magick is real. I've heard alot of claims that it is. I've even heard slightly more specific claims that it gives power over animals and weather, however, I have not heard any specifics about any of these claimed incidents. I am starting to wonder why the specifics aren't offered. Maybe the mystery around these incidents is what makes them believable and once that mystery is taken away then its easy to see through the claims? If that's not it, then do those claiming its real have any excuse as to why they don't give more details?
#3. If magick in the bible was real (like the exodus stick to serpent account) and if magick today is real then a practitoner of magick today ought to be able to throw down a stick and have it turn into a serpent. I've not heard anyone claiming that is possible. For some reason this question was quitely read over and forgotten about earlier in this thread... (Oh how it makes me wonder...) So does anyone know of a person that can throw down a stick and have it literally turn into a serpent? Is such a thing even theoretically possible using the magick yall practiced?
You have offered some very valid observations here frogger. Responses?
Since I don't promote fear and superstition you are on that lying ground again.
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Asserting that your mere opinion is in fact "what the Word of God" says on a subject is hubris and presumption. You can't even make a case to substantiate this opinion - yet you claim it to be the counsel of God. Lame, and potentially, blasphemous.
Actually, I let the Bible speak for itself on the issue.
You have chosen to believe otherwise.
Suit yourself.
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Why don't you pack it in? You have insinuated that everyone who doesn't see it your way is hell bound,
Since I have never said or implied any such thing, that is merely another
falsehood Pel.
Border collies ARE cool, but I would really REALLY do some research before making the leap and purchasing one. It is far more like adopting a kid (minus all the $$$) then simply acquiring a pet.
So as far as moving physical objects -which I would even include toothpicks and pencils in that list, would it be possible, even when said objects were surrounded by Styrofoam peanuts?
This is one of the methods James Randi used to expose Uri Geller on national television.
As far as making it rain, the only time I ever tried to do that a bunch of old mechanical egg beaters fell from the sky, so I was obviously performing the wrong dance.
Last edited by RandyWayne; 11-19-2010 at 08:30 PM.
Watch out Prax, 'Toot will make it rain on your parade. Only he can't, so he'll say that he "can" but that he "won't." Meanwhile, the baloney meter is getting worn out around here.
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Originally Posted by RandyWayne
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Have you ever made it rain, or not rain, in a manner that is repeatable?
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Originally Posted by Flutecrafter
yes
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Originally Posted by RandyWayne
As far as inanimate objects, does this involve any objects above and beyond what Uri Geller dealt with? Toothpicks, pencils, etc.
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Originally Posted by Flutecrafter
again, yes.
not that it really matters.
bunk.
Why does a board that uses the word "Apostolic" in its title attract so many flakes? Just in the last year we had that Branhamite who falsely claimed to have a "doctorate" from Regent or Regents University (he wasn't sure which) trying to pass himself off as an "expert" in a variety of fields. Next thing we hear this guy is arrested for fraud.
Then we had "Lee Stoneking's personal attorney" actually calling people on this board and threatening them over the posts that others had made. This guy, Kalwant S. Boora, had called from the Detroit area and he isn't even licensed to practice law in any state. He (along with Bro. Stoneking) boast of their own "doctorates" which were issued from a known "degree mill" whose staff have a long history of criminal involvement.
Now, "Flutecrafter" claims that his witchcraft was powerful enough to control the weather and move inanimate objects. Challenge him on these absurd claims and he cries "foul" because he really doesn't want to have to do those awful things anymore. He just wants to boast about it in an off-handed manner. Ask him for any proof and he withers. What will we read in the news about "Flutecrafter" in the months to come?
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Originally Posted by Flutecrafter
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Actually, I let the Bible speak for itself on the issue.
You have chosen to believe otherwise.
Suit yourself.
mark
2 Timothy 3:1-9, is the New Testament "interpretation" of Exodus 7, and you've ignored it. Where's the "magic" here? Paul doesn't warn us about "spells," "hexes" and the like. He just warns us about proud highminded boasters who lead captive "silly" people. "Ever learning, and never able to come to the knowledge of the truth."
The Bible is pretty plain when it denounces you guys (the above mentioned frauds). "Let the Bible speak for itself...?" Okay, but don't limit the Word of God to your singular proof text when the whole counsel of God is available to us all.
I have no concern over whether you believe it or whether it happens today. lol Moses apparently believed it really happened and somehow did the same thing... *shrug*
But if Prax shares this view, than that answers my question to him.
what makes you think moses believed it really happened?
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I know a missionary that knew she had a hex cast on her. I have always been taught that a Holy Ghost filled person could not be harmed by a hex/spell. She did die. I don't know that she believed it, but she lived in a country that is full of voodoo.
I don't know why you would expect anyone that believes the Word of God to have doubts about what it says???
Doubts about what it says? What in the world are you talking about?
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#3. If magick in the bible was real (like the exodus stick to serpent account) and if magick today is real then a practitoner of magick today ought to be able to throw down a stick and have it turn into a serpent. . . .
If one particular feat is not reproducible by a particular practitioner, this does not mean said practitioner cannot do other feats, and doesn't mean magick (today's or the OT's) isn't real.
(I don't believe it is, either. Just sayin'.)
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