What's Wrong With Facial Hair

[Hoovie]

Originally Posted by Digging4Truth

Brother... it makes as much sense as the rest of it out there.

I would never want to be caught inciting a woman to lust with hairy arms.

Of course... if I were ever going to incite a woman to lust then hairy arms would be my only hope... that much is for sure.

OK then! ... moving right along....

[SDG]

Now the question is do we get rid of the inner hair ???... nasal ... ears ...???

And truly our eyebrows are a result of sin .... they don't have any purpose do they??? Oh yeah ... right.

oh I forgot that has a purpose ....

[Hoovie]

Originally Posted by Daniel Alicea

Now the question is do we get rid of the inner hair ???... nasal ... ears ...???

And truly our eyebrows are a result of sin .... they don't have any purpose do they??? Oh yeah ... right.

oh I forgot that has a purpose ....

Great point. I have always preached against nasal passage hair.

Cilia wearers are compromisers!

[freeatlast]

Because this no facial hair thing in our ranks is so stoopid and scripturally not supported I have recently grown a mustache and gotee.

I grow it in memory of all the men we have caused to never return to our churches that teach this hair-esy, men that are lost because we teach facial falacy.

[Digging4Truth]

Originally Posted by Stephen Hoover

OK then! ... moving right along....

Well... it's the truth anyhow.

But... as you suggest... moving right along...

[Hoovie]

Originally Posted by freeatlast

Because this no facial hair thing in our ranks is so stoopid and scripturally not supported I have recently grown a mustache and gotee.

I grow it in memory of all the men we have caused to never return to our churches that teach this hair-esy, men that are lost because we teach facial falacy.

I did this exact thing and for a few years - though mine was not a goatee.

[Praxeas]

Originally Posted by Richard Perry

Ummm. Sheltidad. you I'll adress because you admit you didn't see....Modern man is vain beyond the simple things or simple ways of ancient times. They were vain in thier male ego's yes but appearances were never a real social expression. When it became one, Paul addressed it.

Prove modern man is somehow more vain. Prove appearances were never a real social expression to ancient man. What was appearances about for them? What was the makeup and jewelry about? What was the babylonian garments about?

When a male grows hair on the face, it has similar properties as a rock star growing hair for his image, to create a view other than the one he was given.

This makes no sense whatsoever...similiar properties? That the one he was given? What view was anyone given? What if you were born bald, does growing hair mean you are rebellious to how God made you? What about rock stars that shave...why not compare to them? Do you wear deodorant or bathe? Are you creating a view other than he one you were given? And where does the bible say you can't do anything to change how you look? If this is the case, if this is your argument, because it's rather unclear...does that mean Jesus wanted to create a view other than the one he was given by having a beard?

Thus the Law in Lev. to never trim the beard. humility that fit a purpose for Israel. Today, all, with very few exceptions, are grown to fit the projection and change due to social acceptance or social rebellion. When the sports world began embracing the goatee, then the religious world began the same, In my generation it was porkchop sideburns and foo-manchu mustache. (anybody remember Catfish Hunter?)

So then never trimming a beard as a sign of humility for only the Jews suddenly becomes a sign of pride for EVERYONE? Why is it wrong to change how you look? Many people grow beards and don't even watch sports...what about short hair? Do we do that because they do it on wall street? Will we be socially unacceptable for it?

Paul expicitly commanded that our relationship with God is affected by our placement of our head. Women, fearfully, carefully be sure you cover yours with the only glory God gave man. the womans hair. And men, carefully and fearfull consider how you approach God as a man, with Christ as the head and His glory to show and not your's.

Paul NEVER said anything about a beard and headship. Men can approach God AS men with a beard just as without one.

This is the new testement principle in harmony with the old as applied to the gentiles (usson's)

Gentiles back then probably were clean shaven and had short hair...why? Because they followed what Ceaser did as an example
ISBE
In New Testament times, especially in the Diaspora, the Jews frequently adopted the fashion of the Romans in cropping the hair closely (1Co_11:14); still the fear of being tainted by the idolatrous practice of the heathen, which is specially forbidden in Lev_21:5, was so great that the side locks remained untouched and were permitted to grow ad libitum. This is still the custom among the Jews of Eastern Europe and the Orient. See also HEAD.

Wikipedia
Shaving seems to have not been known to the Romans during their early history (under the Kings of Rome and the early Republic). Pliny tells us that P. Ticinius was the first who brought a barber to Rome, which was in the 454th year from the founding of the city (that is, around 299 B.C.). Scipio Africanus was apparently the first among the Romans who shaved his beard. However, after that shaving seems to have caught on very quickly, and soon almost all Roman men were clean-shaven - being clean-shaven became a sign of being Roman as opposed to being Greek, as the Greeks often grew beards

The reflection of the world around Jesus was changing dramatically. Rome had take posession of a kingdom God had developed by 5 great kings. (Cyrus,Darius,Artezerxes,Ahaserous,Alexander the great) The entire world was inundated with cultural fusion, I believe because God was preparing the world for Israel's King. If thou oh Jerusalem had known this day what was given to thy peace, but you would not.

Does not substantiate a no beards rule or beards being wrong

This managerie' was still inplace for the church of the gentiles. So Pauline instructions were a shadow of a Worldwide message. Jesus had come to Israel and had been rejected. We must remember much of His prophcy and teaching was to a nation that knew God. With the law overlooking His every word. He was alway careful not to offend one jot or tittle of the Law for he was the fulfillment of the Law.

Paul never taught against beards

Paul was given, much to his own dismay, charge of this same world that Israel should have had. He spent the time in Arabia and set in the curch the order of importance.

All this verbosity is not proving your case....

Now everybody please take a deep breath. Jesus in Matt 16 placed within the apostolic church with the keys a certain levity and neccessity of lawgiving. I feel that to follow the principles and commands closely is advantageous in this hour for the fences that they bring to keep the enemy from our camp. To live beneath the commands is to invite temptation and to put eternity in jeapordy.

Isn't that how the Catholics got to where they are today? Sorry but I don't see Mat 16 doing this at all. You can't invent Spiritual laws. There is no logical reason anyone can give to suggest having a beard invites temptation and puts eternity in jeopardy

Now stop making me set a dividing line for you. I must Pastor the greatest people on earth and I will set the lines for them. Because when the trumpet sounds, even if they're stumbling, i want them stumbling in the church and not out of it.

Nobody here has asked you to make a dividing line for anyone and no verse says a pastor must set lines for someone else. The bible sets lines, you teach them. You really believe that if someone grows a beard, despite the fact that you have no bible on it, that you can make a law for them about no beards that will keep them out of the church???

We cannot judge feelings. The imputed righteousness will bring us to a restored righteousness, and the atonment will take care of the unknown sins. but, Abraham was only imputed righteousness because he came out from among his world and started following God.

Care to explain how this shows beards are wrong?

[ThePastorsCoach]

Thank you guys for your GREAT POSTS!!
Jesus had facial hair!
There is no prohibition against men with facial hair in the Word of God.

[Just a Shepherd]

Originally Posted by Sheltiedad

Richard, can you summarize your stance in a couple of sentences as to why you believe that beards are wrong... I must be dense because I haven't actually gotten your point in all the stuff you have posted.

You haven't gotten it because he is to busy falling all over himself to appear more intelligent than you. By using his "scholarly" language he attempts to slide his convoluted logic by your reasoning process.

If he were are trinitarian, he would be saying the trinity is a mystery and you just have to have faith to believe what he is saying. Unfortunately for him it was the UPC that taught me not to believe everything, but to "prove all things."

Facial hair isn't addressed in the Articles of Faith, the affirmation statement, or the bylaws. There is absolutely NO prohibition in the UPC against facial hair. If your bible doctrine is so strong Richard why hasn't our organization come out with an official stand against it? It's because the no facial hair people don't even have the courage to try to get it added as an "official" position, because they know a real debate on the issue would blow over their house of cards.

I have much more respect for the pastor who says "shaving is not a biblical commandment, but nevertheless to maintain decorum, I request that the men present themselves clean shaven," than for those who make the outlandish, unverifiable claims that being shaved is part of the New Covenant.

[ThePastorsCoach]

Originally Posted by Just a Shepherd

You haven't gotten it because he is to busy falling all over himself to appear more intelligent than you. By using his "scholarly" language he attempts to slide his convoluted logic by your reasoning process.

If he were are trinitarian, he would be saying the trinity is a mystery and you just have to have faith to believe what he is saying. Unfortunately for him it was the UPC that taught me not to believe everything, thing but to "prove all things."

Facial hair isn't addressed in the Articles of Faith, the affirmation statement, or the bylaws. The no facial hair people don't even have the courage to try to get it added as an "official" position, because they know a real debate on the issue would blow over their house of cards.

I have much more respect for the pastor who says "shaving is not a biblical commandment, but nevertheless to maintain decorum, I request that the men present themselves clean shaven," than for those who make the outlandish, unverifiable claims that being shaved is part of the New Covenant.

Great POST!!!!!!!!!!!! I too have much more respect for men that will just admit that they prefer the clean shaven look and ask their platform Team to be clean shaven. I have NO problem with that - though I would not require it of my staff. This making "outlandish, unverifiable claims" that there is some Biblical prohibition against it - is simply - not true.

Our Lord Jesus Christ - Our Lord and Savior - Had facial hair!