Modesty as described by the General Youth Division

[Sam]

Originally Posted by Justin

I
...
I thought we were all supposed to "be separate from the world" not just the women....?

The men make the rules.
They don't have to live any.

[Jeffrey]

Originally Posted by Pressing-On

I think if Pamela Anderson and I were sisters, I would be known for what I wear as well as she. Don't you think? I'm not sure we will be able to get past that.

I don't know what you wear, but Pamela Anderson would certainly be known for what she wears -- and a lot more! Modesty doesn't scream for attention.

[Jeffrey]

Originally Posted by Pressing-On

Originally Posted by tstew
Jeffrey, I'm not sure I follow you all the way on this.
Who else would they use to advertise a hair-care product? I would expect someone fit to be extolling the virtues of any exercise product,etc...

I don't think the role of true modesty is to eliminate everything that is attractive about a person. At the end of the day, I think that the most universally attractive feature is a very pretty face (hence the supermodels you mentioned). I obviously don't think that such a person has an obligation to put on a burka so as to not attract anyone.

I don't believe that true modesty is just about other people and carrying yourself in a way that nothing about you has any chance of being remotely attractive to others. I think true modesty is about the individual themself, their motives, what they wish to project, and what they know they are attempting to emphasize.

POTD!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!


Excellent, Stew! Well said!!

Tstew, you are missing my point about hair product. And you also stopped at hair commercials and didn't follow my sentence into supermodels and cover girls. It was a side point that hair is quite alluring, sensual (as has been viewed for millennia).

Who said modesty means you can't be attractive? Are you people purposely trying to distort what is being said? My wife is hot. I'm not an advocate of burkha's (maybe your organization has characters who are).

[Jeffrey]

Originally Posted by Pressing-On

Jeffrey,
I'm sorry that I skimmed over your post in haste. I agree that come things would be more appropriate in their various settings. However, some of the things you listed would still be immodest for me. I would prefer to attend a more Conservative minded church. But, you are right - the extent of that would be up to the wearer.

My daughter probably out dresses everyone in our church. She is very stylish. BUT, she does not allow that to distract her in her worship. She sings on the platform and thinks nothing of stopping her singing when the spirit of God moves on her to lift her hands and cry, etc. So, I think that if how you dress is modest and it does not distract your service and worship, dress according to your preference and convictions.

I don't recall any information where the Jewish people uncovered themselves in the manner of the Greeks or the African man. Well, aside from men fishing. It seems that our Judeo-Christian customs have always correlated on many matters. I know that Tz'ni'ut in Hebrew applies to modest clothing, which means your body must not be exposed, still allowing the person to dress stylishly.

I read on a Jewish website that the Bible not only prohibited removing all clothing, but it also prohibited wearing garments belonging to the oppostie sex (Deut 22:5) as it may lead to unnatural lusts, lascivious thoughts and a more free intermingling between the sexes. Just wanted to put that here as I found it interesting.

I wouldn't think we would reach into Greek or any other unchristian culture to teach us about modesty in the Bible. It certainly wouldn't be where I would search to try and define Biblical modesty.

Holiness begins in the heart, but I don't believe it stops there. Whatever is in your heart will show on the outside in your manner of behaviour and in your dress.

Removing "all" clothing, cross dressing (perverts),... point being dogmatic stands should not be culturally limited, but timeless and trans-cultural. Because you don't have a scripture showing a man taking off his shirt neither proves God has prohibited it! The culture mores would help us be modest in those situations. It certainly isn't modest in London Square.

[Jeffrey]

Uh... while I wouldn't "prohibit" mohawks, I would hope my teaching in modesty would help believers grow in the Lord and not want to have an attention-seeking, bad idea called a mohawk on their head. At the last resort, their parents, being mature believers, WILL, in fact, help their children through those kind of silly decisions.

[jfrog]

Originally Posted by Jeffrey

Removing "all" clothing, cross dressing (perverts),... point being dogmatic stands should not be culturally limited, but timeless and trans-cultural. Because you don't have a scripture showing a man taking off his shirt neither proves God has prohibited it! The culture mores would help us be modest in those situations. It certainly isn't modest in London Square.

Just wondering what constitutes cross dressing in the negative sense. Cause I know a great many boys that at one time or another have jokingly put baloons down there shirt...
Or another example: at my high school at the end of homecoming week the school would have a big "cross dressing" thing which was always really fun to watch... I even participated in it once. But it was all just fun. Is stuff like that bad Jeffery?

[Jeffrey]

Originally Posted by jfrog

Just wondering what constitutes cross dressing in the negative sense. Cause I know a great many boys that at one time or another have jokingly put baloons down there shirt...
Or another example: at my high school at the end of homecoming week the school would have a big "cross dressing" thing which was always really fun to watch... I even participated in it once. But it was all just fun. Is stuff like that bad Jeffery?

JFrog, God is not into the "gotcha" game. I believe cross-dressing are those specific, perverted acts where a man distorts sexuality and pretends to be a women. Go to a major city in the US and you will see.

The question is with those who are joking around -- or even husbands and wives who roleplay etc.
I don't think it's the same as "Pat," the he-she walking around the downtown city hustling for a date with another man.

[noeticknight]

Originally Posted by MissBrattified

I had a woman in our church recently remark to me, in a way that was rather startling, "Sarah is the one you have to worry about--those quiet ones, you just never know." She went on to tell me how her daughter had gotten up one Sunday morning and chopped her hair off at the ears, and how she made her come to church anyway, and she sat sullen on the back row. Of course, she was no longer used in any capacity, and that shutting out I'm sure added to the demise of her church experience. "Sarah reminds me of ________.", she said. I could only smile and nod, feeling a little sick, and feeling tears starting to form (not just because of her comments, but thinking that her daughter had been treated unfairly)...

Had my 13 year old daughter, a stellar Christian, attended wearing a modest pair of slacks, trimmed hair, wearing natural looking makeup, discreet earrings and a discreet necklace while donning a " I'm A One-God-Apostolic, tongue talking, holy rolling, born again ... " t-shirt ....

and had sat in between the young lady in the clown attire and the girl with the Apostolic mohawk ...

She would have been bum-rushed and swarmed during altar call to be prayed through ... despite her being a Holy Ghost filled apostolic believer ...

Moreover, most in the group would assume she was either backslidden or mocking them with her t-shirt.

Her adornment and style would have been branded immodest because of the group/cultural parameters and not founded on bible-based principles of modesty.

Her fellowship with others in the Body stymied because of it.

Chagrins visible and gasps audible .... had she turned to either of the girls next to her and had layed her hands on them.

An inconsistent and twisted reality of a culture gone wild.

I wonder how many Christians have left a formal assembly of believers over the mistreatment of their children? I guess it's one thing as an independent adult, to concede certain liberties to gain acceptance into a community. I'm not a parent, but I would imagine it an altogether different scenario to risk the innocent minds of children to a church ethos bordered with razor sharp spikes of disapproval and disfellowship for the same reason. This is the reality and potential consequence of involvement, despite the gentle love of moms and dads like MissB and DAII who would no doubt do all to cushion the pain.

One of the men I consider to be a great mentor to me in the faith, left the assembly (I formerly attended) by and large on account of the differing views he and the leadership held regarding a family matter. The leader held to the organizational by-laws of the church without budging, and removed the brother from his position. It wasn't long after, his family moved on, and I regretted the breaking of our fellowship. I guess I have followed suit. For most assuredly, I will allow no man to override the decisions and authority that first belongs to my family and my own. When it comes to relationships that matter, I don't believe anything should stand in the way. Nope, not even a religious denomination.

[Nitehawk013]

I got through about half of this thread before I felt like speaking up.

Some of you would bellyache and be critical of the Youth no matter what. They dress up an dtry to look their best (even though some do take it to an extreme) so they are horrible and not being modest. If they didn't dress their best they would be criticized for not showing proper regard for the service. Blah blah blah.

They are youth. Get over it.

As to the Apostolic Identity movement...PRAISE GOD!!! This generation is in serious need of a revival of standards. Some of us actually are still PROUD of the fact that our men and women look differnt. Even the standarsd I disagree with, I would rather have them than to let standards go and look like a bunch of Vinyard people.

[*AQuietPlace*]

Originally Posted by Nitehawk013

I got through about half of this thread before I felt like speaking up.

Some of you would bellyache and be critical of the Youth no matter what. They dress up an dtry to look their best (even though some do take it to an extreme) so they are horrible and not being modest. If they didn't dress their best they would be criticized for not showing proper regard for the service. Blah blah blah.

They are youth. Get over it.

You should have read the entire thread. We reiterated several times that we weren't discussing the youth at all.

We're discussing a culture that says makeup and jewelry is wrong, but flashy clothing and wild hair is not. Just discussing that contradiction, that's all.

I personally don't care if someone's hair is 3 ft. tall, and they wear purple and gold glitter. Just don't, at the same time, insist that it's wrong to wear makeup and jewelry because it draws attention to you.