**preacher forums**

[rgcraig]

Originally Posted by aegsm76

So, let me try to understand this.
Is it one person that Charnock has an issue with?

No.

[rgcraig]

Originally Posted by deacon blues

All I know is this: I DO NOT rejoice over the fall of ANY person, preacher or not. All sin is the same with regards to eternal consequence. Not all sins carry the same consequence here on earth. There is a level of shame and disgust attached to sexual sins that goes to the core of those involved and to those impacted by those choices.

Marriage/family/sexuality was instituted by God as the first act of creation after He said that His creation was "very good". The relationship of husband and wife, father and children, mother and children runs to very essence of our genetics. "Bone of bone and flesh of flesh." When people are committed to the covenant of marriage/family/sexuality God's design works beautifully. When broken, the results are devastating.

When a person commits sexual sin it reverberates for so many people. I'm sure its why it carries such a stigma. Proverbs says that the one who commits adultery carries something that is never forgotten by those harmed by the sin.

Whatever the case, the person who commits such acts pays for their sin many times over be it their guilty conscience, from their spouse, with their children or other family and friends who feel betrayed by the acts of immorality. Jesus can and does deliver people from sexual sins and the consequences associated, but it is a long hard climb that takes time, patience, grace and mercy.

Some recent failures of pastors is tragic and should serve to remind us that all of us are broken and need the salvation only Jesus can give. We should repent of our own secret sins, our self righteousness and our pride. May none of us be guilty of rumor mongering, slander or failing to extend mercy where it is needed. One day we are going to need the Body of Christ to extend mercy to us.

Agreed.

[Charnock]

Originally Posted by deacon blues

All I know is this: I DO NOT rejoice over the fall of ANY person, preacher or not. All sin is the same with regards to eternal consequence. Not all sins carry the same consequence here on earth. There is a level of shame and disgust attached to sexual sins that goes to the core of those involved and to those impacted by those choices.

Marriage/family/sexuality was instituted by God as the first act of creation after He said that His creation was "very good". The relationship of husband and wife, father and children, mother and children runs to very essence of our genetics. "Bone of bone and flesh of flesh." When people are committed to the covenant of marriage/family/sexuality God's design works beautifully. When broken, the results are devastating.

When a person commits sexual sin it reverberates for so many people. I'm sure its why it carries such a stigma. Proverbs says that the one who commits adultery carries something that is never forgotten by those harmed by the sin.

Whatever the case, the person who commits such acts pays for their sin many times over be it their guilty conscience, from their spouse, with their children or other family and friends who feel betrayed by the acts of immorality. Jesus can and does deliver people from sexual sins and the consequences associated, but it is a long hard climb that takes time, patience, grace and mercy.

Some recent failures of pastors is tragic and should serve to remind us that all of us are broken and need the salvation only Jesus can give. We should repent of our own secret sins, our self righteousness and our pride. May none of us be guilty of rumor mongering, slander or failing to extend mercy where it is needed. One day we are going to need the Body of Christ to extend mercy to us.

Very good.

The trouble is, some offenders never develop a guilty conscience. They continue in their sin, hold on to their churches, and zealously persecute men and women who do not hold their traditions.

[Theophil]

Originally Posted by bishoph

"... The "unnamed forum" has a very clear doctrinal creed if you will, which one must agree to before becoming a member. If and when some have decided to make their doctrinal stance (which differs from the forum's clearly stated "creed") public knowledge and then debate for its acceptance......they are the ones who have been asked to either agree with the forum's "creed" or remove themselves from embership.......Personally I do not find that to be harsh nor hypocritical. ..."
[/I]

If you are referring to AMF I would like to know where this "doctrinal creed" is displayed. I just looked for 10 minutes and couldn't find it. Thanks, bishoph.

[deacon blues]

Originally Posted by Charnock

Very good.

The trouble is, some offenders never develop a guilty conscience. They continue in their sin, hold on to their churches, and zealously persecute men and women who do not hold their traditions.

Be rest assured their sins will find them out. The fallout is especially bloody when they have left behind a trail of bodies that they were unwilling to extend mercy to. People will recall their fallen son or daughter who was shunned. They will remember how they were removed from the choir for silly reasons. They will remember how they were called into the office or publicly embarassed or preached to from the pulpit without a hint of kindness or mercy whenever they were hurting or had violated a cultural tradition that angered the leader.

Now the leader is wounded and hurting but he hasn't banked any mercy deposits over the years, i.e. building a reputation for erring on the side of compassion, grace and reconciliation. When dictators fall, the populace rise up and hang them in the city square. When a true leader falls his followers who have been the recipients of his servant's heart, his longsuffering, his kind dealings with them, will rise up and work to help him heal and be restored.

You are going to need the Body of Christ and the healing it is designed to give at some point in your life. If you've done nothing but abuse the Body, like the human body, it will be difficult for the Body to tolerate your attacks. The human body rejects foreign bodies. The Body of Christ rejects those from without that try to take advantage of the Body from within. "I will spew you out of my mouth" said the Lord.

[Ron]

Originally Posted by CC1

You are correct that I missed that post from Charnock. His assertion is absurd. I know many of the men on one particular preachers forum and although I fundamentally disagree with them on many issues they are upstanding ethical men who do not provide the "haven" Charnock describes.

Thank you.
I agree.

[Ron]

Originally Posted by deacon blues

I have no idea who Charnock is, but what if Charnock is the victim of an adulterer minister? What if Charnock's husband committed adultery or Charnock's wife was stolen by a pastor? I would be more understanding of these comments. Usually we are hair trigger with our defensiveness without knowing the full story. Just some thoughts to consider.

I beg to differ with you Deacon Blues & I am actually a little taken aback that you could find justification for those comments.
They are wrong for any forum.

[Ron]

Originally Posted by RevDWW

My friend Charnock is known for going over the top at times.
Haven is a bit harsh. But using unjust weights and measure may happen at times. Judging friends differently than those counted as foes happens. But that happens all over and not just with preacher. However seems to me Preachers should be better at fair-play than the average Joe.

A big reason I see a problem with people standing behind false identities & making statements such as that & being protected for it.

I honestly thought things have changed around here, boy was I naive!

[Ron]

Originally Posted by RevDWW

Or what if an adultrous preacher condemned him/her while hiding in his own sin?

Charnock might want to consider what mercy he/she would want and extend that to those who depitefully used him/her.....

Now there is a thought.




.

[deacon blues]

Originally Posted by Ron

I beg to differ with you Deacon Blues & I am actually a little taken aback that you could find justification for those comments.
They are wrong for any forum.

I have compassion for people victimized by sexual sins. I have watched what it does to people. I have seen it effects up close and personal. The depth of harm wounds people in extraordinary ways. I simply will give Charnock the benefit of the doubt, especially since they have been spoken for by reliable posters.

Cut a guy some slack, especially since you don't know what he/she has been through.