Pitfalls in Solely Relying on Acts for doctrine?

[Sam]

Originally Posted by Michael Phelps

Well, I can see your point, Sam, but don't forget - Paul said that if we all cae together at the same place and spoke in tongues, the unbeliever might think we were mad!

And, when we as a group "pray in tongues" some visitors might think we are crazy. Praying in tongues is best left to a private setting or in a group where all are already believers and know what is going on.

[Michael Phelps]

Originally Posted by Sam

And, when we as a group "pray in tongues" some visitors might think we are crazy. Praying in tongues is best left to a private setting or in a group where all are already believers and know what is going on.

I would agree with that.

[Sam]

Originally Posted by Sam

And, when we as a group "pray in tongues" some visitors might think we are crazy. Praying in tongues is best left to a private setting or in a group where all are already believers and know what is going on.

Reminds me of a story about Dodie Osteen (the late John Osteen's wife). She once meant to exhort, "Let's all reach out our hands and pray in tongues for these missionaries," but she said, "Let's all reach out our tongues and pray for these missionaries."

[DaveC519]

Originally Posted by Michael Phelps

Dave, your thought about the hearer being anointed to understand heavenly languages at Pentecost, could hold some merit.

However, when Paul begins to discuss tongues in Corinthians, the direction is to the speaker, not the hearer. Paul addresses his entire discourse to those who are speaking in tongues, and there's no mention of anyone in the congregation having any other interpretation, other than what another "gifted" person would bring to them.

Hello Michael,

I agree that Paul's teaching deals with the speakers. And most likely the 120 did speak in earthly languages, but it is an interesting theory. The unknown tongues of 1Cor 14 I do believe to be heavenly languages, though.

[DaveC519]

Originally Posted by James Griffin

Well we can't expect the boy to dwell here too long he IS getting married a week from today.

Dave good to "see" you buddy.

Back to lurk land........

Hello Brother. Good to see you, too.

[DaveC519]

Mizpeh,

Originally Posted by mizpeh

I worked a 12 hour night shift and stayed up a little too late this morning when I got home, so my posts this morning may have been a little scatter brained. Even now my brain is in a haze! (one more month of straight nights then hopefully back to a more normal schedule again!)

You have been eloquent, as always.

Anyways I can see I wasn't very clear when I mentioned the gift of healing as an example. What I meant is if we limit any of the gifts to being manifest for the sole purpose of edifying the "church" (would that be two or more members or do you think Paul is indicating the entire local assembly which at that time was everyone in the city since there were no denominations and all born again believers constitute the "church") then the gifts cannot be used outside of the assembly.

Since Jesus said "where two or three are gathered together in My name, there will I be in the midst", then I take that (2 or 3) to constitute an "assembly".

For instance, the girl who witnessed to me about Christ did so in an inadvertent way. I had just moved to England and met this girl with her husband at a pub. They were both American as well. The next day Jane gave me a walking tour of the small town we lived in and we went back to her flat. She was pointing out some pics of her folks from Indiana that were on the wall. I asked what her father was holding in his arms and she said a Bible. One thing led to another and as she was talking about Christ she started speaking in other tongues. She was noticably a little embarrassed because the tongues seemed to come out of the blue. Neither of us understood the language the Spirit uttered through her. But God had been dealing with me over the last 6 months before I moved to England and had changed my mind from atheism to "maybe there is a God". When I heard her speak in tongues my first thought was "I want what she has!" And I asked her what she was saying and she explained the baptism of the Holy Spirit and speaking in tongues. Mind you she was a new Christian herself and not schooled in doctrine! She told me to read the Bible and pointed me to the gospels. I repented when I read the gospels especially the sermon on the mount. This all happened outside of a church, so to speak. I hadn't been inside of a church building since I was in elementary school and it was a old school (not charismatic) Roman Catholic church at that.

I said all that to point out that her speaking in tongues was not a prayer language. We were not praying. Neither of us understood what she said by the Spirit.

What do you think? Initial evidence (can't be she had spoken in tongues before but not around me)? Prayer language (neither of us was praying and truly she seemed surprised when tongues came out of her. Neither was she directly witnessing to me about Christ. It all inadvertently came about as we were looking at her family pics)? The gift of tongues?

As Stephen pointed out earlier, this was probably just an ecstatic utterance.

And I'd also like to take this opportunity to share my thoughts about the so-called "prayer language". It was a popular teaching in the Charismatic movement from at least the '70's forward that each Spirit-filled believer receives a "prayer language" which they can engage at will. I've always considered this line of thinking to be counter to Acts 2:4-

"And they were all filled with the Holy Ghost, and began to speak with other tongues, as the Spirit gave them utterance".

I have always understood that the manifestation of glossolalia was God-breathed, and under the unction of the Holy Ghost. For someone to just rattle off unknown words at will is, well, just rattling off!

The reaction of your British friend (surprise) to her utterance leads me to think this was not a self-willed action, but indeed, "as the Spirit gave her utterance". It was simply the Holy Ghost moving in and through her, perhaps interceding on your behalf!

[Hoovie]

Someone will say I am possessed...

I have been present on a few occasions when all were instructed to begin to speak in tongues when a command was given. My understanding of scripture led me to believe and feel very strongly that this was taking place in direct contradiction to scripture.

I suddenly felt very non-Pentecostal and withdrew to the small minority that refused the instruction. One event in particular (large group) has caused me to rethink my obligation to accept Pentecostal norms. Perhaps it's not enough to just withdraw and be quiet...

The peer pressure is unbelievable and the power of suggestion is almost tangible when these scenarios are set up and one or two don't participate. Many who felt as I did likely just went with the flow...

[Pressing-On]

Originally Posted by TRFrance

Not to be too nitpicky, but if you mean... am I saying that it edifies the church body as a whole (in the sense that by the individual being edified, and him/her being a part of the church body, the body is indirectly edified), but the actual gathering of believers there is not directly edified by what they're hearing, (and of course, neither are unbelievers there edified).... then yes.

And does paul discourage the practice?... definitely.

Are you saying - No spontaneous combustion? (lol) - no tongues when you are under the anointing while preaching? - nothing from the pew during worship service? I'm not totally understanding you.

[Sam]

Originally Posted by Light

You need to read some more.

Acts 11:12 And the spirit bade me go with them, nothing doubting. Moreover these six brethren accompanied me, and we entered into the man's house:
Acts 11:13 And he shewed us how he had seen an angel in his house, which stood and said unto him, Send men to Joppa, and call for Simon, whose surname is Peter;
Acts 11:14 Who shall tell thee words, whereby thou and all thy house shall be saved.
Acts 11:15 And as I began to speak, the Holy Ghost fell on them, as on us at the beginning.


Let's see now if we have it right?

The Angel tells Cornelius to call for Peter. Cornelius tells Peter and the 6 men what the angel said to him. Peter tells those at Jerusalem what the angle said. Words to be saved by.

Cornelius had a repented heart, heard the word, was filled with the Holy Ghost and baptized in Jesus name.
Oh btw the six men heard them speak in tongues when the HG came on them. The only way to be saved.

Yes, that was quite a trip for Peter and those who went with him.

Peter preaches the Word. He starts with the miracles and ministry of Jesus and goes on about how Jesus was the Anointed One of God. He preaches the death, burial and resurrection of Jesus and how Jesus has commissioned him and others to preach about Jesus being the Judge of the quick and the dead. He then continues that according to the witness of the prophets, whoever believes in Jesus will receive remission/forgiveness of sins. Cornelius and the others apparently listened, heard, believed, and passed from death to life and into the kingdom of God while Peter preached. The living seed of the Word had brought forth life. But they did not stop there. As they rejoiced in their new life and new found faith, something bubbling up from within affected their lips and tongues. They received the Holy Ghost Baptism. Peter's sermon was interrupted as Cornelius and his companions began to speak with tongues. Peter realized that these had not only gotten saved, they'd also received the same Holy Ghost Baptism that he had received about eight years before. He then commanded them to be baptized in the name of the Lord. That was quite a home meeting there that day! Peter told them words whereby they were saved. But they were not only saved, they went on to receive the Holy Ghost Baptism and then water baptism.

[stmatthew]

Originally Posted by Sam

Yes, that was quite a trip for Peter and those who went with him.

Peter preaches the Word. He starts with the miracles and ministry of Jesus and goes on about how Jesus was the Anointed One of God. He preaches the death, burial and resurrection of Jesus and how Jesus has commissioned him and others to preach about Jesus being the Judge of the quick and the dead. He then continues that according to the witness of the prophets, whoever believes in Jesus will receive remission/forgiveness of sins. Cornelius and the others apparently listened, heard, believed, and passed from death to life and into the kingdom of God while Peter preached. The living seed of the Word had brought forth life. But they did not stop there. As they rejoiced in their new life and new found faith, something bubbling up from within affected their lips and tongues. They received the Holy Ghost Baptism. Peter's sermon was interrupted as Cornelius and his companions began to speak with tongues. Peter realized that these had not only gotten saved, they'd also received the same Holy Ghost Baptism that he had received about eight years before. He then commanded them to be baptized in the name of the Lord. That was quite a home meeting there that day! Peter told them words whereby they were saved. But they were not only saved, they went on to receive the Holy Ghost Baptism and then water baptism.

Sam, can you please tell me how one can pass from death unto life prior to the Holy Ghost quickening them?? The Holy Ghost is the NEW LIFE. Without it, one has no NEW LIFE.