Interesting thread. Somebody suggested perspective from some black folk...so here goes....
I honestly find some of the historic symbols of patriotism a little ironic at best and somewhat disingenuous at worst. Can you imagine hearing some of the beautiful lyrics about freedom and liberty and God-given rights while at the same time recognizing that this was penned, quoted, and sang at a time when slavery was embraced based on color.
"O'er the land of the free and the home of the brave" just seems ironic. I'm not even sure how one could say "With liberty and justice for all" with a straight face given the reality of the time.
Without question there were also evil Africans who participated in the slave trade. I guess one of the differences for me is that they were not claiming to be a "Christian" nation with Christ-like ideals. They were not saying and writing the same kinds of things about about "all men being created equal" and certain Jehovah God-given rights. They were not claiming to be people of prayer and people who knew God.
I don't believe the lady meant to be disrespectful, but she may have been misguided in her efforts. It just seems to me that the races hold the traditional symbols at different levels of sacredness.
The IDEA of having the land of the free and the home of the brave, the IDEA that all men are created equal, the IDEA of God-given rights were what our country was built on.
At the time of our country's birth, the world-view was skewed as to what those ideas really meant. Evidently, there were some people (even those who called themselves Christians) who didn't think this applied to people of color.
Thank God that today a large majority see these ideas as applying to all people of all races and religions.
At the time of our country's birth, the world-view was skewed as to what those ideas really meant. Evidently, there were some people (even those who called themselves Christians) who didn't think this applied to people of color.
Just a historical caveat ....
America was pretty late in the game compared to Europe in abolishing slavery ... and it did take 1 million men to die ...
France abolished slavery in 1794 then reinstated by a dictatorial Napoleon for awhile ....
and we did 40 years after England ... sans civil War
Gives a moment to pause ... and see how entrenched we were in this "world-view".
Of course they were becoming industrialized at a quicker pace .... and a different workforce was soon in demand.
and Cotton was still King ... here.
I will acquiesce that this did not stop France and England's imperialist motives and negative attitudes towards "inferior" people across the globe.
The IDEA of having the land of the free and the home of the brave, the IDEA that all men are created equal, the IDEA of God-given rights were what our country was built on.
At the time of our country's birth, the world-view was skewed as to what those ideas really meant. Evidently, there were some people (even those who called themselves Christians) who didn't think this applied to people of color.
Thank God that today a large majority see these ideas as applying to all people of all races and religions.
Thankfully so. I am certainly not anti-America. I was just wanting to give a little perspective on how there is room for someone to sincerely love the country and not be impressed to the point of sacred awe by some of the historic writings.
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Thankfully so. I am certainly not anti-America. I was just wanting to give a little perspective on how there is room for someone to sincerely love the country and not be impressed to the point of sacred awe by some of the historic writings.
America is not perfect, but it's the best thing going!
You've got a good spirit about you, and I enjoy reading your posts!
Interesting thread. Somebody suggested perspective from some black folk...so here goes....
I honestly find some of the historic symbols of patriotism a little ironic at best and somewhat disingenuous at worst. Can you imagine hearing some of the beautiful lyrics about freedom and liberty and God-given rights while at the same time recognizing that this was penned, quoted, and sang at a time when slavery was embraced based on color.
Very good point. The irony was probably overwhelming, and hard to swallow. Kind of like Christians who talk a good game, but don't live up to their own ideals. Also, to add to the confusion, the Bible doesn't really take a stand against slavery, although it does condemn racism and slavery on principle. Which is why you will find recordings of "good" slave owners and masters in history and in the Bible.
Quote:
"O'er the land of the free and the home of the brave" just seems ironic. I'm not even sure how one could say "With liberty and justice for all" with a straight face given the reality of the time.
...I don't believe the lady meant to be disrespectful, but she may have been misguided in her efforts. It just seems to me that the races hold the traditional symbols at different levels of sacredness.
This is probably the case, but I think it can arise from a mistaken concept that the black people fought for freedom against America as a whole, when in fact that is not the case. And the ideals our country stands for are applicable to everyone, therefore they should be embraced by all, and when those ideals aren't met, they can be used as a tool to achieve liberty, through tacit reminders to those who are in the position to bring about lasting and meaningful change.
The symbols of our country are symbols of freedom, not symbols of the "white man." It irritates me to see them minimized as such.
As for Ms. Rene--her intentions may have been good, but even if they were, she defeated her purpose, because some things you shouldn't mess with. To me, it would be the same as spray painting "black pride" across the American flag. Objecting to the graffiti is not the same as objecting to "black pride."
Okay, maybe that's apples and oranges. LOL!!! The Black National Anthem is actually a beautiful song, and can't be equated with graffiti.
Hum. The problem is...sometimes as a (sort of ) white woman I feel bullied into not expressing offense against what I perceive as racism and an old fashioned Superiority Complex because any objection seems to be perceived as innate racism on my part. Does that make sense?
And to address what Daniel asked earlier--I don't object because it's a black hymn, or whatever it was he implied. I object because she sang a song other than the one she was asked to sing (lack of etiquette), and used her platform for a political statement rather than graciousness, and respecting the honor paid to her with the invitation to sing the National Anthem for such an event in the first place.
It is an honor to be asked, IMO.
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"God, send me anywhere, only go with me. Lay any burden on me, only sustain me. And sever any tie in my heart except the tie that binds my heart to Yours."
--David Livingstone
"To see no being, not God’s or any, but you also go thither,
To see no possession but you may possess it—enjoying all without labor or purchase—
abstracting the feast, yet not abstracting one particle of it;…."
--Walt Whitman, Leaves of Grass, Song of the Open Road
Thankfully so. I am certainly not anti-America. I was just wanting to give a little perspective on how there is room for someone to sincerely love the country and not be impressed to the point of sacred awe by some of the historic writings.
Well, I think all of us probably possess ideals we can't or don't live up to. I can write prosaically about motherhood and being the perfect wife for pages on end, but when it comes right down to it, I'm just your average mother and homemaker.
My husband isn't nearly as impressed with my writings as others may be. He's more likely to look something over, look at me over the top of the page, and ask, "So when are you going to start doing this?" LOL!!!!
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"God, send me anywhere, only go with me. Lay any burden on me, only sustain me. And sever any tie in my heart except the tie that binds my heart to Yours."
--David Livingstone
"To see no being, not God’s or any, but you also go thither,
To see no possession but you may possess it—enjoying all without labor or purchase—
abstracting the feast, yet not abstracting one particle of it;…."
--Walt Whitman, Leaves of Grass, Song of the Open Road
) white woman I feel bullied into not expressing offense against what I perceive as racism and an old fashioned Superiority Complex because any objection seems to be perceived as innate racism on my part. Does that make sense? 
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