Originally Posted by Michael Phelps
EB, I asked you this question earlier in the thread, and forgive me if I overlooked your answer, but if you would be so kind as to respond again -
Do you believe this is a salvational issue? If a Christian decorates a tree, exchanges gifts, listens to Christmas carols, etc. do you believe they will go to hell?
I think you have his answer in his silence Mike.
__________________
God has lavished his love upon me.
Oh I forgot, keep quite, don't question, be a good little drone. Please...don't look behind the curtian!
OA, I said argument, not fighting, or screaming. Argument is discussion and discussion only. I Bible study right smack in the middle of a Barnes and Nobles book seller cafe. I have been doing it for three years, I have a Rabbi who doesn't believe that Jesus is the messiah and he sits in on Mondays, and everything else you can think of has sat in these Bible studies from time to time over the course of those three years.
I tell those who continue in study with me that they must NEVER lose their cool during a Bible study discussion. These are series of arguments on different positions, and if any one takes it personal or raises their voice they have lost. Argument is good as long as you know what is an argument. I can tell by your comment that you don't know.
Yes, brother, I do know what an argument is. I just don't like to argue. But, hey, thats just me. The point is, it seems some of us LOVE to argue. And, by ARGUE , I mean fuss and fight, which, it seems, is what it always becomes. We can call it discussion, even debate (though that, according to Paul IS unbilblical, IMO). We spend an inordinate amount of time "discussing" the things we disagree with, and hardly anytime talking... just talking...about the things we agree with. And, you speak of taking "it personal" or "raising the voice". THAT is exactly what these "discussions" usually end up becoming as parts of this thread demonstrate. Nothing is ever solved... quite the oposite is true. I mean, name a subject. Any subject and that will lead to a discussion, a disagreement and, more than likely, hurt fellowship. I cherish the fellowship with my brother and sister more than that . In all honesty, is it pleasing to the Lord that we can find so much to disagree with and so little that we share in common? .
I teach that one must continually question and by questioning you get total understanding. The students are told to research and study what I present them.
You are right, Brother. Question. The reason the Pentecostal Movement is as fractured as it is, is because people have blindly accepted what they have been told. We have every right, every expectation to question. However, with so many "teachers" the answers we get take us into every different direction and, ultimately further apart. Thankfully, We have a Teacher who has appointed a 5 fold ministry to answer our questions. Any voice that attempts to lead us away from His Word is to be avoided.
I have some students that spend hours with me going through the scriptures and it‘s continually back and forth answering questions and making sure everything is clear.
That is very good. And, as they "continually go back and forth" in the Scriptures, I am sure you are quick to remind them to be led by God's Spirit in their search for truth. For, and I'm sure you will agree, in so doing, they will never be led astray.
I started this thread by making the statement that Xmas was unbiblical and that in itself was an easy statement.
Meaning that it could only be answered with a “yes” answer.
Since we would like to protect our sacred cows (no pun intended) we never give the yes vote, but continue to keep the discussion going based on our emotions concerning the tradition.
My sacred cow is the Unity of the Spirit of which Paul tells us to "endeavor" to keep. As Endtime Christians we should be doing more than ever to safeguard that unity and peace. But it seems the opposite is true. The arguing, debating and discussion that we do almost endlessly is tearing us apart. Perhaps it is true... "the love of many shall wax cold".
But, to answer your question. No, I find nothing "unbiblical" about celebrating Christmas. Some "extra-biblical" activities... but nothing "unbiblical". And, those extra-biblical activities are no more than the steeple on a church. Pagan in origin, yes. But the current purpose? While perhaps "extra-biblical" but certainly not "Unbiblical".
I have personally gone round and round with some on standards and the same people who fight tooth and nail against standards will fight tooth and nail to keep Xmas, which is unbiblical traditions of men.
No discussion, no argument, just on and on about feeding the poor, families getting together, egg nog, and nativity scenes.
If a Brother posts a thread on long uncut hair for women, and no television watch out!
Brother it happens all the time, from both sides of the fences. We fight because we love a good fight. But, in the end...we both lose if fellowship is harmed. To me, this is the saddest part of all.
Every year when we discuss the Xmas issue it always goes down the same road, the people who will cry out that the conservatives are teaching unbiblical issues, are the same people who will defend the unbiblical Xmas.
Heavenly One, you have made a very good point here. I can't recall in 34 years of ministry any non-Christian questioning why we Christians celebrate Christmas. And I have lived overseas, and here in Vancouver area we are a very multi-cultural city, yet like you, the only ones I have ever heard address the issue of Christians celebrating Christmas are other Christians.
I'd be interested in finding out how many people here can be honest and say that they have had unsaved, unchurched people tell them they want nothing to do with their church because they celebrate a pagan holiday like Christmas.
I'd start a poll, but last time I did that, I proved them wrong and they put me on ignore and hold a grudge to this day.....LOL!
__________________
I've gone and done it now! I'm on Facebook!!!
I have yet to meet a single person who is unsaved tell me they have no respect for me because I celebrate Christmas. I have yet to meet a single unchurched person tell me that I'm wrong for celebrating Christmas.
I have, however, met unsaved, unchurched people wonder why there are Christians who refuse to celebrate Christmas for any reason.
One such person, referring to a member of a church I used to attend, told me, "How can you call yourself a Christian if you won't even celebrate the birth of your God?"
I have yet to hear the opposite come out of their mouths.
If judgment comes from anywhere, it comes from those in the church, not out of it. That's too bad.
This is a great point.
__________________ If I do something stupid blame the Lortab!
Soooo....this sounds like she was referring to you not celebrating xmas... Ah-HAH!
The secret is OUT!
YES!! shes come outta the closet!
*wink*
LOL! Yes, it does sound like they were talking about me, but they were referring to a married couple in my church who didn't even attend dinners if they were for any holiday purpose. They would come to the dinner if it didn't have a holiday name attached to it though.....LOL!
For instance, the married couples met once a month for a meal and fellowship. They attended them except when it was mentioned that in December, it would be a Christmas meal, in November, when it was mentioned that it would be a Thanksgiving meal, and in April, when it was mentioned that it would be an Easter meal......etc.
It was a visitor to one of these events that overheard the couple talking about how they wouldn't attend the following dinner because it was for Christmas, and she commented the above to me.
__________________
I've gone and done it now! I'm on Facebook!!!
LOL! Yes, it does sound like they were talking about me, but they were referring to a married couple in my church who didn't even attend dinners if they were for any holiday purpose. They would come to the dinner if it didn't have a holiday name attached to it though.....LOL!
For instance, the married couples met once a month for a meal and fellowship. They attended them except when it was mentioned that in December, it would be a Christmas meal, in November, when it was mentioned that it would be a Thanksgiving meal, and in April, when it was mentioned that it would be an Easter meal......etc.
It was a visitor to one of these events that overheard the couple talking about how they wouldn't attend the following dinner because it was for Christmas, and she commented the above to me.
In that case, it was ridiculous to think like that..does sound like some people I've known, though. I NEVER turn down a church dinner occasion, lol
*maybe I should though..stepping on the scales *
__________________ You can tell more about people
by what they say about others...than by what others
say about them.
I'd be interested in finding out how many people here can be honest and say that they have had unsaved, unchurched people tell them they want nothing to do with their church because they celebrate a pagan holiday like Christmas.
I'd start a poll, but last time I did that, I proved them wrong and they put me on ignore and hold a grudge to this day.....LOL!
*
Linear Mode
