Pastors move to withhold/lessen SFC offerings in protest of NAYC

Originally Posted by mizpeh

What about the locker room?

don't run around naked there either...


Once again, let's all worship my holiness!

[CC1]

After the various threads recently involving appropriate and inappropriate dress (particularly for women) I started looking around Christ Church the last few weeks on Sunday and have concluded that most UPC types would not approve.

I believe their Super Hypersensitivity to any bare skin would have their eyes popping out of their head and their head shaking in disapproval enough to warrant chiropractic care.

The funny thing is that this is something that I don't notice since it is no longer a point of hyper concern for me. Obviously I notice a pretty woman but because of the cultural norms of modesty and moderation I don't give a second thought when I see bare arms or shoulders on a woman. I see it every day at work, the mall, Wal Mart, television,etc so there is not the "shock" and eye grabbing that seems to happen with many UPC type folks.

Back to the old "if you are looking to take offense you will find it". While I personally would not wear some of the outfits I see at church if I were a woman they don't "offend" me and I certainly don't dwell on them or give them a second thought.

For those of you who don't think modesty and moderation are moving targets depending on culture I would urge you to research the Victorian age when ankles were a great source of lust because they were forbidden fruit that was covered up out of modesty. By that "standard" most UPC and even AMF women are living in sin!!!

[DividedThigh]

Originally Posted by CC1

After the various threads recently involving appropriate and inappropriate dress (particularly for women) I started looking around Christ Church the last few weeks on Sunday and have concluded that most UPC types would not approve.

I believe their Super Hypersensitivity to any bare skin would have their eyes popping out of their head and their head shaking in disapproval enough to warrant chiropractic care.

The funny thing is that this is something that I don't notice since it is no longer a point of hyper concern for me. Obviously I notice a pretty woman but because of the cultural norms of modesty and moderation I don't give a second thought when I see bare arms or shoulders on a woman. I see it every day at work, the mall, Wal Mart, television,etc so there is not the "shock" and eye grabbing that seems to happen with many UPC type folks.

Back to the old "if you are looking to take offense you will find it". While I personally would not wear some of the outfits I see at church if I were a woman they don't "offend" me and I certainly don't dwell on them or give them a second thought.

For those of you who don't think modesty and moderation are moving targets depending on culture I would urge you to research the Victorian age when ankles were a great source of lust because they were forbidden fruit that was covered up out of modesty. By that "standard" most UPC and even AMF women are living in sin!!!

be careful cc1 you might be accused of making sense, lol,dt love ya

[ChicagoPastor]

Originally Posted by CC1

Yeah but you are a lib and wouldn't see "sin" if it slapped you in your face!!!

ha

i guess you have a point

[BobDylan]

Originally Posted by Felicity

Hazelwood moneygrabbers? Really?!! And you know this - how?

Those pastors who send funds directly to missionaries are acting in defiance of the group they pay dues to and they're also doing a disservice to the missionaries themselves putting them in the position of also acting counter to the way things are supposed to work re FMD of the UPCI.

What about being submitted to the authorities and those in leadership over you?

Hazlewood has no spiritual authority over anyone. My post that you quoted was an example of how Hazlewook is a "moneygrabbing" machine. Missionaries only get about 1/3 of the monies they raise once it goes through FD....

[Praxeas]

Originally Posted by pelathais

In my agreement with the above, I will add...

The pics apparently from the MTV shows? That style of dress was inconsistent with UPC and Apostolic values; however... she's a kid. Who knows, no doubt a bunch of designers descended upon her and she was pressured from every direction to wear this dress and that gown. Did she simply cave in to peer pressure or is this a reflection of who she is when she's not around church folks? Who knows? She's a kid. The moderators on this forum were correct to stifle that earlier thread and the pics, IMHO.

The young lady should be free to try things, experiment and even fall down a few times while growing up. We should trust her parents, pastor and those close to her- and most importantly- trust the young lady herself to eventually find her way through the amazing labyrinth her talents have led her to. And, the Manual never even dreamed to ever address the issue of whether or not some apostolic teenager is "allowed" to voice a cartoon character on an educational program.

What I don't agree with are the statements that the Youth Committee some how violated UPC "by-laws" in highlighting the young lady's odyssey. First of all, there are no "UPC by-laws" per se, just the Manual. No where in the Manual does it even address who the Conqueror's President can be allowed to interview as part of a pre-service warm up at NAYC. The UPC has, in its wisdom, usually allowed the Youth Committee a lot of leeway to try things, experiment and even fall down a few times while growing up.

I think they did an outstanding job this year and the tabloids and paparazzi are wrong in their condemnations. Most of the criticisms seem to be attacks against straw men that were set up by sensationalists.

Why not judge the YC on what they really did? Not by what someone else wore to the MTV Awards? That's like judging Ladies Memorial by the performance of Rosie O'Donnell on The View.

Why not NOT judge the YC at all? Pray for them, but it's absurd to withhold money that is going to be affecting other areas. How selfish. This is about winning souls and helping people...it's sickening to make that into a political football.

[SDG]

Originally Posted by Praxeas

Why not NOT judge the YC at all? Pray for them, but it's absurd to withhold money that is going to be affecting other areas. How selfish. This is about winning souls and helping people...it's sickening to make that into a political football.

I hate agreeing w/ you.

[retsambeW]

If it were simply an offering towards the youth department, I might be holding back myself. However, considering the programs this offering goes for, I see this as pretty foolish. Let us cut off our nose in spite of our face. Oooo, bound to feel great.

I might add, we won't be giving much, anyway. Small church.

[IAintMovin]

Originally Posted by BobDylan

Hazlewood has no spiritual authority over anyone. My post that you quoted was an example of how Hazlewook is a "moneygrabbing" machine. Missionaries only get about 1/3 of the monies they raise once it goes through FD....

This post proves that so many have NO CLUE as to what really happens at HQ.........BD your bitterness is showing.....your numbers are off..........Personally I would hate to pastor people with that kind of mind set......look out BD.... the sky is fallin.........

[Praxeas]

Originally Posted by Daniel Alicea

I hate agreeing w/ you.

Ah well that explains a lot about you Dan....and about many liberals in general