UPCI's Randy Hollis Throws Down the Gauntlet: The Emancipation of Isaac

[James Griffin]

Originally Posted by Encryptus

Pastor CS,

At least in this thread we are in lockstep. :-)

It is true a pastor may wish to impose extra-Biblical standards on the congregation he leads. But he is the one who will be accountable on judgment day.

Furthermore, while we may debate the merits of those standards, rebellion against authority, those you recognize as being over you (whether pastor or organizational leaders) is sin.

To say I realize what I am signing is a lie, but you don't know what movies they watch.....

Really hard to believe that logic would come from an Apostolic pastor.

Sounds like when I correct my teenager, "But Dad everyone else is doing it"

Wonder how well that line will work in eternity?

Opps almost forgot my smiley so everyone will know this post is in the right spirit.

BUMP

Why are some bragging about their defiance to their organizational superiors?

[RevBuddy]

I realize it may be viewed as oversimplification, BUT...

why not teach and preach ONLY what's actually IN the Word of God, versus, teaching and preaching non-scriptural based subjects that have no foundation in His Word???? DUH??

His Word is of no private interpretation, BUT...

many insist on not only drawing their own (often inaccurate) conclusions from Scripture, BUT demanding those personal views be institutionalized within their fellowship and church!!!



Why? To take the Word of God and twist its truth and purity to fit my view of this world or His world makes me very fearful. And, before someone misunderstands me, yes, the twisting takes place from both ends of the religious spectrum, both conservative and liberal (for lack of a better descriptor).



Strong, bible-based teaching and preaching will produce Life, not death. And, I feel most comfortable, and at home, when my teaching and preaching is fully anchored in His Word...and not mine.

Brilliant!!!!!

[James Griffin]

Originally Posted by RevBuddy

I realize it may be viewed as oversimplification, BUT...

why not teach and preach ONLY what's actually IN the Word of God, versus, teaching and preaching non-scriptural based subjects that have no foundation in His Word???? DUH??

His Word is of no private interpretation, BUT...

many insist on not only drawing their own (often inaccurate) conclusions from Scripture, BUT demanding those personal views be institutionalized within their fellowship and church!!!



Why? To take the Word of God and twist its truth and purity to fit my view of this world or His world makes me very fearful. And, before someone misunderstands me, yes, the twisting takes place from both ends of the religious spectrum, both conservative and liberal (for lack of a better descriptor).



Strong, bible-based teaching and preaching will produce Life, not death. And, I feel most comfortable, and at home, when my teaching and preaching is fully anchored in His Word...and not mine.

Brilliant!!!!!

I for one, can fully appreciate what you are saying.

I also realize even since OT times people have been trying to take the scripture and figure out how to apply it to their individual circumstances. Hence the Talmud and Jewish Oral Traditions expounding the 613 commandments they found in the Torah.

In an idealized world sola scriptura would be the standard. However, it is not possible for every situation to be expounded.

In the realm of law, where I have spent many years, there is constant litigation over exactly what a piece of legislation means, it is simply not enough sometimes to merely repeat it.

Perhaps it is the will of God that we come together, and discuss His Word and how to apply it to our individual circumstances.

Confusing certain standards of conduct with salvation issues may be wrong, but trying to determine for example what is meant by "holy" or "separated" is not.

[RevBuddy]

Well said...and a point well taken...

[staysharp]

Originally Posted by James Griffin

I for one, can fully appreciate what you are saying.

I also realize even since OT times people have been trying to take the scripture and figure out how to apply it to their individual circumstances. Hence the Talmud and Jewish Oral Traditions expounding the 613 commandments they found in the Torah.

In an idealized world sola scriptura would be the standard. However, it is not possible for every situation to be expounded.

In the realm of law, where I have spent many years, there is constant litigation over exactly what a piece of legislation means, it is simply not enough sometimes to merely repeat it.

Perhaps it is the will of God that we come together, and discuss His Word and how to apply it to our individual circumstances.

Confusing certain standards of conduct with salvation issues may be wrong, but trying to determine for example what is meant by "holy" or "separated" is not.

This sounds good, but unfortunately not possible. Most are too insecure to accomplish such an admirable task.

In Ultra Con circles this would be viewed as "compromising" on the message. There is actually an element of dysfunctional pentecostalism that feeds off of religious pride and spiritual elitism. This is the crowd that shouts "preach it harder", you can't get low enough and dirty enough for this mindset.

The more they criticize others, the better they feel about themselves and their internal demons.

Some people cannot be accommodated regardless of how hard you try.

[staysharp]

Originally Posted by ;

In a perfect world, you are so right. However our people (UPC) are taught to put so much stock in their pastor that far too many of them put him on a ;. When the legalist starts to beat them over the head with their legalisms it is not too hard to see how they can be run off!

Don't act like you don't have a clue. I know you are way smarter than that. Maybe you are a conservative of integrity and really do love the sheep but there are those who are what you aren't. Those men almost relish in the fact that they have been able to run someone off who dared to ask questions and didn't conform quick enough.

Yep, there's the door and don't let it hit you on the way out. I know too many wonderful people who have been destroyed by the ministry. I pick up the pieces every day. I'm sure its as prevalent in other circles as well, so I certainly don't want to stereotype UCP.

[Coonskinner]

Originally Posted by staysharp

Yep, there's the door and don't let it hit you on the way out. I know too many wonderful people who have been destroyed by the ministry. I pick up the pieces every day. I'm sure its as prevalent in other circles as well, so I certainly don't want to stereotype UCP.

LOL...

You are inviting me to leave?

Careful, you'll be guilty of spiritually abusing me.

[Jekyll]

Originally Posted by Jekyll

My sentiments exactly. Why do you exclude faith from being a biblical principle? My convictions are based on the Bible and faith. My convictions are not salvational to my neighbor.

Principles and ideals as far as a television go are subjective and people don't agree as to its effects or its degredation of social values. While the bible doesn't mention TV or many modern things ITS PRINCIPLES are the basis for not allowing those things to be included in my lifestyle. Don't turn this into something it isn't and don't try to paint people what they aren't.

You have an axe to grind, go grind it. I don't thing that there's much left to grind, though, you've been at it for awhile.

Originally Posted by staysharp

Dr. Jekyll, just wondering if you've been talking with Mr. Hyde lately?

Do you honestly believe people will go to hell for subjective convictions?

I really want to know. The reason is this, I just left the most wicked legalistic church and they believed if you didn't tow the line, you were hell bound. The problem was this; none of them did tow the line, they just wanted everybody to think they did.

In your heart, do you really believe people that do not agree with you in your convictions, are going to hell? I mean burn in torment for eternity hell.

I think you need a new sharpening stone, or you need to learn how to read. The whole gist of my post was that my convictions are based on my faith in God and in His word. I implore you to put your shovel down and quit trying to pack words into peoples' mouths

[tv1a]

If you've read my posts, you would see time after time that I'm not against personal convictions. I am againsts the imposition of subjective convictions on others. The same principle that guide your conviction against television should guide your views on the internet. One of the tell-tale signs of a legalist is the ability to change the rules to permit certain activities while appearing to save face and condemning a similar activity.

You have an axe to grind, go grind it. I don't thing that there's much left to grind, though, you've been at it for awhile.

When all else fails try to discredit the messenger. I've presented scripture you have chosen to ignore or rather conceede. I haven't decided.

Originally Posted by Jekyll

My sentiments exactly. Why do you exclude faith from being a biblical principle? My convictions are based on the Bible and faith. My convictions are not salvational to my neighbor.

Principles and ideals as far as a television go are subjective and people don't agree as to its effects or its degredation of social values. While the bible doesn't mention TV or many modern things ITS PRINCIPLES are the basis for not allowing those things to be included in my lifestyle. Don't turn this into something it isn't and don't try to paint people what they aren't.

You have an axe to grind, go grind it. I don't thing that there's much left to grind, though, you've been at it for awhile.

[ManOfWord]

Originally Posted by Coonskinner

Is that an example of you and Randy chatting?

Since neither he nor I claim to be prophets, I don't think so.

Originally Posted by Jekyll

This is one of the most arrogant or ignorant statements I have heard in a long time.



That witchhunting bandwagon rolls along pretty quickly and people STILL run fast enough to hop on

This is one of the most "ON TARGET" statements I have heard in a long time!

Originally Posted by RevBuddy

I realize it may be viewed as oversimplification, BUT...

why not teach and preach ONLY what's actually IN the Word of God, versus, teaching and preaching non-scriptural based subjects that have no foundation in His Word???? DUH??

Brilliant!!!!!

Wow!!! Teach and preach ONLY what's actually IN the Word of God? Now there's a novel concept. I can't imagine God being anything but overjoyed when that happens!!! (banish the thought)