Islamic Prayers at the Vatican

[Luke]

Originally Posted by jfrog

It worries me that you would make Jesus words meaningless.

Jesus said he who hungers and thirsts after righteousness would be filled. But nevermind that right? Because no one actually hungers and thirsts after righteousness anyways?

I guess i didn't deal with who that was to my bad. Sinful man does not hunger or thirst after righteousness (notice the scriptures that i already posted). However a saved individual would therefore to the individual who has been saved and thirst for more there is plenty. If this passage was directed toward the unsaved then you have a problem when you get to these verses:

Matthew 5:8 Blessed are the pure in heart: for they shall see God.
10 Blessed are they which are persecuted for righteousness’ sake: for theirs is the kingdom of heaven.
11 Blessed are ye, when men shall revile you, and persecute you, and shall say all manner of evil against you falsely, for my sake.

Sinners are not pure in heart nor are they righteous.

This is directed to those following Jesus not those who are not yet saved.

[shazeep]

Originally Posted by Luke

I meant no offence or insult by that post rather it was a honest interpretation of the veiw of salvation through keeping the law.

ha ok, i was being evil; and i have no excuse! but i'm not getting why you think that practicing love, and thereby grace, as a means to salvation might be interpreted as keeping the law?

[shazeep]

Originally Posted by Luke

You are tryinh to separate Jesus' humanity from His diety this a false view. Jesus was God and man both at the same time. It was not that Jesus was indwelt by God rather He was and is God. He is the only way.

Amen--as is Melchezidek--to stretch the point just a little. Wadr, you respect Christ the man, but not Christ the Spirit with this, iow.

[shazeep]

Originally Posted by Luke

What if all circles were really squares? Jesus said in no uncertain terms that He was the only way so either He is the only way or He is liar? You can decide which.

ah, now you have found a condition, imo, in which neither is true...hmm.

[Luke]

Originally Posted by shazeep

ha ok, i was being evil; and i have no excuse! but i'm not getting why you think that practicing love, and thereby grace, as a means to salvation might be interpreted as keeping the law?

I may have read to much into this part of your previous post:

Originally Posted by shazeep

Um, what? 9/10ths of the Law? The Separation Parable? Luke, you have to be kidding me. Love your neighbor is the only way to heaven.

My apologies i guess i misunderstood.

[jfrog]

Originally Posted by Luke

I guess i didn't deal with who that was to my bad. Sinful man does not hunger or thirst after righteousness (notice the scriptures that i already posted). However a saved individual would therefore to the individual who has been saved and thirst for more there is plenty. If this passage was directed toward the unsaved then you have a problem when you get to these verses:

Matthew 5:8 Blessed are the pure in heart: for they shall see God.
10 Blessed are they which are persecuted for righteousness’ sake: for theirs is the kingdom of heaven.
11 Blessed are ye, when men shall revile you, and persecute you, and shall say all manner of evil against you falsely, for my sake.

Sinners are not pure in heart nor are they righteous.

This is directed to those following Jesus not those who are not yet saved.

And there it is again. You are limiting Jesus own words to such an extent they don't mean anything anymore.

[Luke]

Originally Posted by shazeep

Amen--as is Melchezidek--to stretch the point just a little. Wadr, you respect Christ the man, but not Christ the Spirit with this, iow.

I don't get the Melchezicek reference?

I respect and worship Jesus as a whole. He was 100% God and 100% man no more and no less the one than the other rather He was entirerly God and entirerly man at the same time.

[Luke]

Originally Posted by jfrog

And there it is again. You are limiting Jesus own words to such an extent they don't mean anything anymore.

Can a man be both unrighteous and righteous at the same time? Can a man be both pure and impure at the same time? Can a man be a of the kingdom of darkness and of the Kingdom of God at the same time? In order for Jesus to have been directing those comments to sinners and not as instruction to believers all of the above contradictions must be possible and true.

[shazeep]

hmm, the 'simmers v saved' distinction might be getting in the way...

Originally Posted by jfrog

And there it is again. You are limiting Jesus own words to such an extent they don't mean anything anymore.

wadr, i must agree. but we all have to come into more understanding in our own way.

[jfrog]

Originally Posted by Luke

Can a man be both unrighteous and righteous at the same time? Can a man be both pure and impure at the same time? Can a man be a of the kingdom of darkness and of the Kingdom of God at the same time? In order for Jesus to have been directing those comments to sinners and not as instruction to believers all of the above contradictions must be possible and true.

It takes a sinner to hunger and thirst after righteousness. The righteous have already ate and drank from that table and no lobger hunger and thirst for they have been filled.