How many times did you ask God for the Holy Ghost? - Page 22

Jeffrey · #**211** 06-02-2010, 11:43 PM

I also think he was speaking of Holy Spirit baptism.

Our only point of contention, if we even call it that because I'm certainly not certain myself, is with these points:

Quote:

It is a promise. Do this and that and this other thing will happen.

EDIT: It also never says the other thing won't happen if you don't do the other 2 things.

I agree it's a promise, but not necessarily "do this and I'll do this" in form. However, there is certainly an element of "do this and this and this, and you will receive this." So I see where you are coming from. You also state this it doesn't conclude "if you don't do this and this, this won't be given to you," but that would be a logical conclusion if you accepted the conditional status of the former.

Timmy · #**212** 06-02-2010, 11:57 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Jeffrey

I also think he was speaking of Holy Spirit baptism.

Our only point of contention, if we even call it that because I'm certainly not certain myself, is with these points:

I agree it's a promise, but not necessarily "do this and I'll do this" in form. However, there is certainly an element of "do this and this and this, and you will receive this." So I see where you are coming from. You also state this it doesn't conclude "if you don't do this and this, this won't be given to you," but that would be a logical conclusion if you accepted the conditional status of the former.

Not using real logic, it wouldn't.

If the condition isn't met, there is no implication, either way, for the result: it may or may not happen.

Jeffrey · #**213** 06-03-2010, 12:02 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Timmy

Not using real logic, it wouldn't.

If the condition isn't met, there is no implication, either way, for the result: it may or may not happen.

If someone says do A and I'll give you B, one can easily imply that if they don't do A, they won't get B.

How can you say there's no implication.
If i say "Timmy, post this flyer in the state capital of all 50 states and I'll give you 1 million dollars", it's pretty much implied that if you don't post the flyer in all 50 states, that I won't give you the million dollars. I wouldn't have to make that qualification when making the deal.

This assumes the million dollars can't be received from another person independent of this offer, and that I hold all exclusivity of currency (to even up the score, since God is the only one who can baptize another with the Spirit).

Timmy · #**214** 06-03-2010, 12:09 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Jeffrey

If someone says do A and I'll give you B, one can easily imply that if they don't do A, they won't get B.

How can you say there's no implication.
If i say "Timmy, post this flyer in the state capital of all 50 states and I'll give you 1 million dollars", it's pretty much implied that if you don't post the flyer in all 50 states, that I won't give you the million dollars. I wouldn't have to make that qualification when making the deal.

This assumes the million dollars can't be received from another person independent of this offer, and that I hold all exclusivity of currency (to even up the score, since God is the only one who can baptize another with the Spirit).

I was only talking about logic.

p->q is true when p is true and q is true, or when p is false (and it doesn't matter if q is true or false). But yes, in most offers of reward for behavior, the condition must be met for the reward to be given. But sometimes, like a dad who's an old softie, the reward might happen anyway. I've been known to give my kids ice cream even if they didn't clean their rooms. E.g.

Did Saul ask for the Holy Spirit? Did he repent?

Jeffrey · #**215** 06-03-2010, 12:16 AM

Touche'

jfrog · #**216** 06-03-2010, 07:20 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Jeffrey

I also think he was speaking of Holy Spirit baptism.

Our only point of contention, if we even call it that because I'm certainly not certain myself, is with these points:

I agree it's a promise, but not necessarily "do this and I'll do this" in form. However, there is certainly an element of "do this and this and this, and you will receive this." So I see where you are coming from. You also state this it doesn't conclude "if you don't do this and this, this won't be given to you," but that would be a logical conclusion if you accepted the conditional status of the former.

I get what you are trying to say too and it deserves some consideration: that usually in promises if you don't hold up the prerequisites then you do not get the promise. But as Timmy showed, there are exceptions to not getting the promise just because you don't meet the prerequisites.

In fact I would say that biblically and also today in Pentecostal churches that baptism usually always precedes the Holy Ghost (the prerequisites before the promise). That seems to be the norm. There are some exceptions though (the promise without the prerequisites), both in the bible (Cornelius) and today.

proudfather · #**217** 06-03-2010, 08:18 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by notofworks

Ok, so explain this:

Zechariah 3:8 says, "Hear now, O Joshua the high priest, thou, and thy fellows that sit before thee: for they [are] men wondered at: for, behold, I will bring forth my servant the BRANCH."

How do you explain that??

Thy fellows is a reference to the associates in the priestly office. The people wonder at these men and their devotion to God. The branch is a reference to Christ. What's your point?

proudfather · #**218** 06-03-2010, 08:45 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Jeffrey

I also think he was speaking of Holy Spirit baptism.

Our only point of contention, if we even call it that because I'm certainly not certain myself, is with these points:

I agree it's a promise, but not necessarily "do this and I'll do this" in form. However, there is certainly an element of "do this and this and this, and you will receive this." So I see where you are coming from. You also state this it doesn't conclude "if you don't do this and this, this won't be given to you," but that would be a logical conclusion if you accepted the conditional status of the former.

Jesus also said, "Ask and ye shall receive." Here the only requirement is to ask, but we all know that there are other requirements. James said, "ye ask and ye do not receive, because ye ask amiss." So when we ask God for the Holy Ghost, we should receive it even if we ask amiss? That doesn't make sense. (This question is not for Jeffrey)

Timmy · #**219** 06-03-2010, 08:59 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Jeffrey

Touche'

Brad Murphy · #**220** 06-03-2010, 09:07 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Berkley

More than 20 times, really?? Wow, all I can say is ya'll must have been real deep in S-I-N...
sinny-sin-sin, as Bernie Mac put it!

(kidding)

Yeah, at 10 or 12 years old I was involved in a lot of sin... I think watching Dukes of Hazzard on television at my grandpa's house on Friday nights or wishing that I could go without my shirt like all the other neighborhood boys must have really been horrible in the eyes of God... after begging and pleading for months or possibly years as per the formula I eventually spoke in tongues, but I don't remember the specific date or even where it was at for that matter (since everyone else seems to remember the exact moment it happened).