the greek word for "man" in Jn. 3 that you referenced is the word for "Human Being," not masculine, but neuter. You really should educate yourself a little more.
And, vs. 3 mentions the "women," who WERE IN JAIL....how could they go "EVERYWHERE" from jail????????????????? Sheesh, try a little honesty w/ the text. Those who preached everywhere are defined as the ones who were scattered abroad in vs. 1, not vs. 3! This is the 2nd time that I've showed you this & yet you deny the grammar of the text???
Verse one mentions men only?? Or excludes women in the text? Show me.
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Well, Scripture doesn't mention women in vs. 1 either, but you assume that this would include women, I agree, but it should also include infants...who YOU said would have to be "preaching"??????? Come, come now!
The context of the passage doesn't end in verse one. Remember, when the Bible was written, it wasn't written in chapters and verses. That passage was written as one whole, not pieces that you choose to take from it. Saul was creating havoc in the church. Are you claiming that he was throwing children in prison as well, or even persecuting infants? Come on. I know you are smarter than that.
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You are the one attempting to "erase away" I Tim. 2, I Cor. 14, etc....all so you can keep your agenda??????? One [of many] more thought, the Greek word "elders" in your Bible is ALWAYS in the masculine....NEVER in the feminine! Hmmmmmmmmmmmmmmm.
I know you don't want to go there. Did you know that 'office of the bishop' is feminine? Do you really want to go there?
In addition, those letters from Paul didn't exist at the time in Acts. Even IF your assertion is true that Paul didn't allow women to preach, he hadn't written those letters at that time. His 'preferences' weren't retroactive...LOL!
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I believe that there is a role for women in the church. As long as a woman is in submission to her husband and the elders of the church she can teach and prophesy. I don't see a woman shepherding or being an elder in the church. However, obviously the more mature sisters can shepherd and mentor the young women.
Also I'd like to note. I don't believe in the "office of Pastor" as it's seen in churches today. I believe that the Apostolic model of church in the Bible demonstrates that saints met in homes in rather informal environments. There, the more mature and spiritual brothers operated in the "ministry of pastor" by working together to shepherd the flock. What we call "pastor" isn't an office... it's a ministry. Any spiritual and mature saint of God who can mentor, or aid shepherding the flock, is operating in the pastoral ministry.
I believe that there is a role for women in the church. As long as a woman is in submission to her husband and the elders of the church she can teach and prophesy. I don't see a woman shepherding or being an elder in the church. However, obviously the more mature sisters can shepherd and mentor the young women.
Also I'd like to note. I don't believe in the "office of Pastor" as it's seen in churches today. I believe that the Apostolic model of church in the Bible demonstrates that saints met in homes in rather informal environments. There, the more mature and spiritual brothers operated in the "ministry of pastor" by working together to shepherd the flock. What we call "pastor" isn't an office... it's a ministry. Any spiritual and mature saint of God who can mentor, or aid shepherding the flock, is operating in the pastoral ministry.
I was trying to say the same thing or something simular earlier in this thread I have very simular views on the ministry .
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I believe that there is a role for women in the church. As long as a woman is in submission to her husband and the elders of the church she can teach and prophesy. I don't see a woman shepherding or being an elder in the church. However, obviously the more mature sisters can shepherd and mentor the young women.
Also I'd like to note. I don't believe in the "office of Pastor" as it's seen in churches today. I believe that the Apostolic model of church in the Bible demonstrates that saints met in homes in rather informal environments. There, the more mature and spiritual brothers operated in the "ministry of pastor" by working together to shepherd the flock. What we call "pastor" isn't an office... it's a ministry. Any spiritual and mature saint of God who can mentor, or aid shepherding the flock, is operating in the pastoral ministry.
I agree! My take or opinion is that of course a woman CAN pastor., the question is "should she"? Personally I do not think at least for myself, that a woman should SEEK to be anything other than what GOD hath privileged for her to be, which is a wife & mother. HE was not silent about what He considers womens roles. Yes any & every one that worships our ONE GOD, JESUS, has an obligation to carry His gospel message to other humans whom do not know Him., but being in some authoritarial position of leadership over a congregation of male&female saints seems to be unnecessary and possibly more of a self-centered desire, to wit all the posts & threads I've read on multiple forums, of the problems that many saints have with certain pastors, not all pastors of course are the same., but thats what we read mostly about. IMHO and experience women are generally the more nurturing type (not that some men arent) as they alone have the privilege of bearing children; and their influence over respective famiy, is valuable beyond earthly ideas of wealth., it is also greatly fulfilling. Unfortuneately some women are never happy in such a role., (for a myriad of reasons) and seek to satisfy individual inner longings, in more public ways; WELL! this can be a most complex issue in itself! lol
Seriously, WHY do the real "saints" need someone lording over them when JESUS alone is LORD, anyway? JESUS is quite capable of supplying all my needs! His guidance is a close as His Word, His love and support live in me!
My pastor, if any, is my very own blessed husband, whom is MY head, as He is under his head JESUS! Something is very wrong with other humans wanting to be seen as superior, in whatever capacit(ies) to other humans., where's the humble meek quiet spirit GOD expects & loves, from His handmaidens?
This has been my personal opinion if it meets with disaproval from anyone, I won't waste precious time in arguing., or debating., no one ever cares what i have to say about anything else, anyway, why start now,
No, theres much I get to do, I have a cake to bake today, laundry to wash/fold/put away, and company this weekend, GOD is good!
Oh of course, lots of bible reading/studying in btwn, MUCH praise to GOD throughout, for His generous blessings!
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So now are you relegating Paul's teachings to the NT church as merely his "preferences"??????? Come, come now...let's get honest.
Verse 1 mentions the church, nothing is said about "women preaching," that's the whole point. You are the one who supplies that INTO the text, which does not confess the same! In sum, the entire "woman preacher" argument is fostered on the shoulders of speculation...not Scripture!
That said, I was a thinkin all day about this dilemna., as it were.
Yes as a woman I CAN say that I feel that we women CAN do just about anything that a man can do.., that is not the point though.
Its "should we"...and especially considering that I/we are/am under 'new management'.
A simplistic ex: I can paint houses well, I have lots of experience, but does that give me the go-ahead to go paint my neighbors house, whether he/she likes it or not, asks for it or not? Is MY genius brain (lol) OR, my apparent abilities or gift sufficient reason, to just do as I feel I was called to do?
Maybe thats a far stretch but its just something that flew into my little old brain, I'm not really a genius, I am actually possessory of only an AAS degree in the legal field, that I never did use much for personal reasons, GOD had a different plan in mind for me., Moreover, I found much more contentment/fulfillment as a housewife! Coincidence?
Egads! Thats almost a dirty word [housewife] in the vocabulary of many of todays 'liberated' women., some even prefer to use "domestic goddess" as if to sound better but its just silly. *lol*
I too am a liberated woman but one set free by GOD! Hallelujah, its a far greater miracle than my years spent studying books to obtain mans degree.
GOD is able to make the most simple mind reach higher levels of understanding for His purposes., and I am grateful to be able to couple my former skills with GOD's power, to achieve a more abundant life, oh I wish everyone could feel this way.
Gotta go, too much to do, too little time although sometimes I get on a roll in posting, today has been a rare day., thanx to all for humoring me.
__________________ You can tell more about people
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I think we really have to pay attention to what the scripture is saying, and not what we want them to say. For too long 'we' have misinterpreted so many to support our own belief system rather than conforming our to what they actually teach. One thing for sure is that we have to be open minded in order for God to be able to speak to us.
So now are you relegating Paul's teachings to the NT church as merely his "preferences"??????? Come, come now...let's get honest.
Verse 1 mentions the church, nothing is said about "women preaching," that's the whole point. You are the one who supplies that INTO the text, which does not confess the same! In sum, the entire "woman preacher" argument is fostered on the shoulders of speculation...not Scripture!
simplyme has some good points as well.
You can choose to believe that THEY excludes women, but I'll believe what the Bible says.
Men AND women were thrown in prison. Saul was creating havoc in the church and the church was scattered....a church made up of men and women. THEY (scripture doesn't say THOSE MEN, as you want to believe) which were scattered went everywhere preaching. THEY refers to the men AND women of the church.
__________________
I've gone and done it now! I'm on Facebook!!!
I think we really have to pay attention to what the scripture is saying, and not what we want them to say. For too long 'we' have misinterpreted so many to support our own belief system rather than conforming our to what they actually teach. One thing for sure is that we have to be open minded in order for God to be able to speak to us.
Amen. Good post.
__________________
I've gone and done it now! I'm on Facebook!!!
!
My take or opinion is that of course a woman CAN pastor., the question is "should she"? Personally I do not think at least for myself, that a woman should SEEK to be anything other than what GOD hath privileged for her to be, which is a wife & mother. HE was not silent about what He considers womens roles. Yes any & every one that worships our ONE GOD, JESUS, has an obligation to carry His gospel message to other humans whom do not know Him., but being in some authoritarial position of leadership over a congregation of male&female saints seems to be unnecessary and possibly more of a self-centered desire, to wit all the posts & threads I've read on multiple forums, of the problems that many saints have with certain pastors, not all pastors of course are the same., but thats what we read mostly about. IMHO and experience women are generally the more nurturing type (not that some men arent) as they alone have the privilege of bearing children; and their influence over respective famiy, is valuable beyond earthly ideas of wealth., it is also greatly fulfilling. Unfortuneately some women are never happy in such a role., (for a myriad of reasons) and seek to satisfy individual inner longings, in more public ways; WELL! this can be a most complex issue in itself! lol
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