Apostolic Litumus Test: Do you affirm - Yes or no? - Page 22

Scott Hutchinson · #**211** 06-30-2008, 10:18 PM

Our dear Bro.Rutledge does seem to have a good spirit,he takes a firm stand yet he is a gentleman.

Pressing-On · #**212** 06-30-2008, 10:32 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by pelathais

You'd have to ask Peter here. I am making the argument as an "argument from authority." That is, I'm simply taking what he says. He said

"The like figure whereunto even baptism doth also now save us (not the putting away of the filth of the flesh, but the answer of a good conscience toward God,) by the resurrection of Jesus Christ."

It is my own belief that I must have faith in the resurrection of Jesus Christ to be saved. Colossians 2:12 seems to follow this same theme. This is, I believe the essence of Romans 10:9.

What saves me at baptism is not the old backslider who did the dunking, nor the water, not the music nor anything that was said or not said. What saved me was my faith in the resurrection of Jesus Christ. This was the point that Bro. Rutledge made as well, though he and I probably differ on the way in which we ennunciate these values.

I am saved by grace through faith at every "step" of my Christian experience. Even if I fall down, I am still sustained by His grace which enables me to get up again and keep on steppin'.

I don't think you have to, initially, have faith in the resurrection of Jesus Christ. You simply have to believe that He is. Hebrews 11:6.

Everything else you believe in or obey comes next.

Tim Rutledge · #**213** 06-30-2008, 10:36 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Scott Hutchinson

Our dear Bro.Rutledge does seem to have a good spirit,he takes a firm stand yet he is a gentleman.

Thanks Bro.

Scott Hutchinson · #**214** 06-30-2008, 10:37 PM

I admire anybody who is true to their convictions.You are most welcome brother.

Tim Rutledge · #**215** 06-30-2008, 10:43 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Pianoman

I've been reading your posts the last week or so. You seem to be a good man and faithful defender of what you believe. You have a good attitude in your disagreements.

I disagree with you on some issues, but I wish you God's favor and blessings!

Thank you, thats kind of you to say. May the Lord God bless you real Good!

pelathais · #**216** 06-30-2008, 10:55 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Pressing-On

I don't think you have to have faith in the resurrection of Jesus Christ. You simply need to believe that He is. Hebrews 11:6.

Everything else you believe in or obey comes next.

What? Now we have to defend the resurrection on this board? ... just kidding.

stmatthew · #**217** 06-30-2008, 11:06 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by stmatthew

Quote:

Originally Posted by Daniel Alicea

From our rules:

Apostolic is defined on AFF as:

Those that believe that every sinner must repent of their sins.
That Jesus name baptism is the only biblical mode of water baptism.
That the Holy Ghost is for today and is received by faith
with the initial evidence of speaking in tongues.
The saint will go on to strive to live a holy life, pleasing to God.
.

IF one has not been baptized in Jesus name, then according to the rules here at AFF, they have not been obedient to the ONLY bible pattern of baptism. This would place those that believe that you can be baptized any ole way and still be saved outside of agreement with these rules.

I think the joke here is that Daniel wanted to try to push this off, yet later on he plainly states that the mode of Baptism is not important. So Daniel, your vote don't count.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Daniel Alicea

How could a person be disobedient if they are being baptized in the way they were taught? I do not believe ... no do 1 steppers believe in OSAS, btw.

Furthermore .... are the not being baptized under the authority and power of the name Jesus was given and gave to his disciple in Matthew 28 ...?

Also ...the biblical meaning of "in the name of "... is entirely a different discussion for another day, Tim.

Do you believe that that salvation hangs on the baptizer getting it right?

Thought I would bump this one more time. Again, to agree with the rules as written, one cannot accept that someone that has been baptized any other way than in Jesus name has been baptized biblically. Therefore, those that accept any other mode other than Jesus name baptism as ok are not in agreement with the AFF Statement of Faith. I see a few names in the "Yes" line that I know do not believe Jesus Name baptism is exclusively (the only) biblical.

Sam · #**218** 06-30-2008, 11:08 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Pressing-On

I don't think you have to, initially, have faith in the resurrection of Jesus Christ. You simply have to believe that He is. Hebrews 11:6.

Everything else you believe in or obey comes next.

If He IS that means He is alive i.e. resurrected.

pelathais · #**219** 06-30-2008, 11:23 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by stmatthew

Thought I would bump this one more time. Again, to agree with the rules as written, one cannot accept that someone that has been baptized any other way than in Jesus name has been baptized biblically. Therefore, those that accept any other mode other than Jesus name baptism as ok are not in agreement with the AFF Statement of Faith. I see a few names in the "Yes" line that I know do not believe Jesus Name baptism is exclusively (the only) biblical.

Just to quibble with your good point academically...

Your formulation appears to miss the folks (like Daniel A., if I've understood him correctly) who believe that baptism in Jesus name is biblical, but not always salvational.

I believe baptism in Jesus name is the manner in which the first century church baptized (at least predominately baptized). Thus we find descriptions of baptism in Luke's history all being "in Jesus name."

But there are those who can sincerely ask about the meaning of "baptism in Jesus name" as well. By this phrase, did Luke intend for us to picture the traditional baptismal method of a preacher holding the convert in his arms and immersing him while saying, "IN JESUS NAME?"

Or was there an acceptable diversity, for example occasions where the one being baptized made the formal vocalization and immersed themself? Or perhaps a group of people offering up and calling upon the name of Jesus in prayer while a person was being immersed.

The problem with allowing such a diversity would be that the "power" of salvation is taken out of the hands of an authoritarian bureaucracy and invested in the masses of believers. And baptism itself no longer "saves us," but our faith in the work work of Jesus Christ does (1 Peter 3:21).

stmatthew · #**220** 06-30-2008, 11:30 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by pelathais

Just to quibble with your good point academically...

Your formulation appears to miss the folks (like Daniel A., if I've understood him correctly) who believe that baptism in Jesus name is biblical, but not always salvational.

I believe baptism in Jesus name is the manner in which the first century church baptized (at least predominately baptized). Thus we find descriptions of baptism in Luke's history all being "in Jesus name."

But there are those who can sincerely ask about the meaning of "baptism in Jesus name" as well. By this phrase, did Luke intend for us to picture the the traditional baptismal method of a preacher holding the convert in his arms and immersing him while saying, "IN JESUS NAME?"

Or was there an acceptable diversity, for example occasions where the one being baptized made the formal vocalization and immerssered themself? Or perhaps a group of people offering up and calling upon the name of Jesus in prayer while a person was being immersed.

The problem with allowing such a diversity would be that the "power" of salvation is taken out of the hands of an authoritarian bureaucracy and invested in the masses of believers. And baptism itself no longer "saves us," but our faith in the work work of Jesus Christ does (1 Peter 3:21).

I disagree.

The AFF Statement that Daniel has used states that baptism in Jesus name is the ONLY BIBLICAL MODE of baptism. Daniel has stated that one can be baptized in Titles and be saved, thus he does not believe that Jesus Name Baptism is the ONLY BIBLICAL MODE of baptism. Either that or he believes that someone can disobey scripture and still be saved.