Do You Believe In Women Preachers?

[Esaias]

If women are to keep silent in church, and are not allowed to teach (except the younger women), then are we smarter than the Bible nowadays?

[n david]

Originally Posted by Esaias

If women are to keep silent in church, and are not allowed to teach (except the younger women), then are we smarter than the Bible nowadays?

We know there were women in the Bible who prophesied, in both Old and New Testaments it's recorded. So "are we smarter than the Bible" doesn't work here.

Paul was in the home of Philip the Evangelist in Acts 21. He had four daughters "which did prophesy" it appears while Paul was there. Why didn't he condemn Philip for his daughter's actions?

So are the two statements by Paul (1 Cor 14:34 and 1 Tim 2:12) meant for specific congregations due to specific issues? I believe they are.

Because there were women who led Israel (Deborah) and women who were prophets; and because there were, in the NT church, women who prophesied and the Bible says daughters would prophesy -- I don't believe there is a blanket prohibition on women speakers.

Personally, I would not attend a church with a female Pastor, but I have no issue listening to a female give a message from the Bible.

[Evang.Benincasa]

Originally Posted by n david

We know there were women in the Bible who prophesied, in both Old and New Testaments it's recorded. So "are we smarter than the Bible" doesn't work here.

Paul was in the home of Philip the Evangelist in Acts 21. He had four daughters "which did prophesy" it appears while Paul was there. Why didn't he condemn Philip for his daughter's actions?

So are the two statements by Paul (1 Cor 14:34 and 1 Tim 2:12) meant for specific congregations due to specific issues? I believe they are.

Because there were women who led Israel (Deborah) and women who were prophets; and because there were, in the NT church, women who prophesied and the Bible says daughters would prophesy -- I don't believe there is a blanket prohibition on women speakers.

Personally, I would not attend a church with a female Pastor, but I have no issue listening to a female give a message from the Bible.

Deborah didn't lead Israel. She was a judge during a time of utter religious apostasy. Her husband was mentioned because either he was a super great guy, and he passed away. Or he was a super bad guy, and he passed away. Either way everyone knew her husband (who was the real prophet) Deborah's title as prophetess in Hebrew meant she was married to one. In a patriarchal society it would of been pretty bad to have a woman over you. Especially leading you into battle. Deborah is told by God to tell a man BARAK to go fight the enemy. Deborah even tells the guy that he already knew about this, because God told him first. But Barak didn't want to go for whatever reason. He then tells Deborah that he won't go until she comes with him. At hearing this Deborah clues Barak into the fact that God wouldn't give the victory to Barak MAN, but give the victory to a milk maid with a tent spike. Not a good look, not at all.

The case concerning 1 Cor 14:34 and 1 Tim 2:12 are specifically dealing with husband and wife issues. The whole argument about females yelling across the room is not found in the Old or New Testaments. Individuals using that argument go to Talmudic Judaism of the Medieval period to offer a segregated synagogue setting was probably the cause of Paul's comments.
They point to ask husband's at home, because they look at the pulpit and audience setting in a Christain Church. The settings of the New testament church congregations are in homes. The service didn't just have a talking a head, but had elders who presented the teachings to the church. Men were also instructed to keep silence or remain calm. When the three fold witness of tongue talking and interpretation went forth from the ELDERS. Women weren't a part of this teaching, or prophysing group. Yet, women did prophesy as well as men. Just not in these situations. 1 Timothy 2:12 the apostle let's it be known that he won't even tolerate a woman having authority or teaching her husband. But she was to remain calm. 1 Corinthians 14:34 definitely cannot be considered as one event, for one specific congregation. Because the word referring to churches is plural. Therefore like the hair/vail issue was across the board to all house gatherings. Married females were commanded (not suggested) to be under obedience as was required in the the law. Therefore wives were to be subject to their own husbands, and not to the greater congregant of elders. No one was teaching someone else's wife, or children. That was the man's job. If elder older sisters were teaching females they topic of Bible study was how they were supposed to submit and love their husbands. If Philip the Evangelist's daughters prophesied and if Phil didn't want that, he could shut it down Numbers 30. But they were prophesying, spiritual utterance, could of been speaking in tongues, of just giving praise to God. But a prophet named Agabus was the one who told Paul how the cow ate the cabbage. Not the virgin daughters.

What is your reason for not attending a church with a woman pastor?

Also what do you think about a Woman General Superintendent?

[Tithesmeister]

Originally Posted by Evang.Benincasa

Can someone preach only when they are in a pulpit?
That is an important question.

I don't believe preaching requires a pulpit. I don't believe a pulpit makes preaching anymore or less anointed.

There is only one mention of the word pulpit in the KJV of the Bible. It is found in Nehemiah. Ezra stood on the pulpit and read the law. The Levites expounded on the law to the people. It was a joyous, even hilarious occasion.

Nehemiah 8:4

4] And Ezra the scribe stood upon a pulpit of wood, which they had made for the purpose; . . .

It could cause a problem though, if there were no pulpit. Because it would make it more difficult to cause division. The greatest division in the church is between the pulpit and the pew . . .

1Cor.3
[3] For ye are yet carnal: for whereas there is among you envying, and strife, and divisions, are ye not carnal, and walk as men?

Preaching without a pulpit?

However could we maintain the division between pulpit and pew?

The next thing you know, someone would believe that the term "MINISTER" means servant.

Oh dear!! Such heresy!

[Tithesmeister]

In the third chapter of Isaiah the Lord is pronouncing impending judgement on the Israelites. Part of the curse is that the will be ruled by women. It is possibly one of the more relevant passages concerning this subject. I urge you to read it.

In context, it does not seem to me that the shame is on the women, but it is rather a shame pronounced on the men for not stepping up and doing what God ordained them to do. Here is the specific verse, read the surrounding scripture to get the full context.

Isa.3
[12] As for my people, children are their oppressors, and women rule over them. O my people, they which lead thee cause thee to err, and destroy the way of thy paths.

Not to deflect from the subject, but are we not in this same position as a nation?

It seems that maybe a third of congressmen, and senators, are actually women?

[Barb]

Originally Posted by n david

We know there were women in the Bible who prophesied, in both Old and New Testaments it's recorded. So "are we smarter than the Bible" doesn't work here.

Paul was in the home of Philip the Evangelist in Acts 21. He had four daughters "which did prophesy" it appears while Paul was there. Why didn't he condemn Philip for his daughter's actions?

So are the two statements by Paul (1 Cor 14:34 and 1 Tim 2:12) meant for specific congregations due to specific issues? I believe they are.

Because there were women who led Israel (Deborah) and women who were prophets; and because there were, in the NT church, women who prophesied and the Bible says daughters would prophesy -- I don't believe there is a blanket prohibition on women speakers.

Personally, I would not attend a church with a female Pastor, but I have no issue listening to a female give a message from the Bible.

[Esaias]

Originally Posted by n david

We know there were women in the Bible who prophesied, in both Old and New Testaments it's recorded. So "are we smarter than the Bible" doesn't work here.

Paul was in the home of Philip the Evangelist in Acts 21. He had four daughters "which did prophesy" it appears while Paul was there. Why didn't he condemn Philip for his daughter's actions?

So there were prophetesses, but they are to remain silent in the assembly and are not allowed to teach or to exercise authority over a man.

So are the two statements by Paul (1 Cor 14:34 and 1 Tim 2:12) meant for specific congregations due to specific issues? I believe they are.

Show your work, please, and demonstrate why those two verses are not a general rule but limited to two specific churches.

Because there were women who led Israel (Deborah) and women who were prophets; and because there were, in the NT church, women who prophesied and the Bible says daughters would prophesy -- I don't believe there is a blanket prohibition on women speakers.

Do you think there might be a difference between someone who happens to speak (no reference to where or when), and a "speaker" who addresses the whole assembly with authoritative teaching?

Personally, I would not attend a church with a female Pastor, but I have no issue listening to a female give a message from the Bible.

Why wouldn't you attend a church with female leadership? Would you have said "Deborah leading Israel? Forget that, every man to his tent"?

[Esaias]

Originally Posted by Tithesmeister

In the third chapter of Isaiah the Lord is pronouncing impending judgement on the Israelites. Part of the curse is that the will be ruled by women. It is possibly one of the more relevant passages concerning this subject. I urge you to read it.

In context, it does not seem to me that the shame is on the women, but it is rather a shame pronounced on the men for not stepping up and doing what God ordained them to do. Here is the specific verse, read the surrounding scripture to get the full context.

Isa.3
[12] As for my people, children are their oppressors, and women rule over them. O my people, they which lead thee cause thee to err, and destroy the way of thy paths.

Not to deflect from the subject, but are we not in this same position as a nation?

It seems that maybe a third of congressmen, and senators, are actually women?

The women ruled over them, and their leaders cause them to err. Those leaders would include the women ruling over them.

Yes, it's a problem in the nation today. And the cause today is the same as back then. And the outcome is also basically the same.

[Evang.Benincasa]

Originally Posted by Tithesmeister

I don't believe preaching requires a pulpit. I don't believe a pulpit makes preaching anymore or less anointed.

There is only one mention of the word pulpit in the KJV of the Bible. It is found in Nehemiah. Ezra stood on the pulpit and read the law. The Levites expounded on the law to the people. It was a joyous, even hilarious occasion.

Nehemiah 8:4

4] And Ezra the scribe stood upon a pulpit of wood, which they had made for the purpose; . . .

It could cause a problem though, if there were no pulpit. Because it would make it more difficult to cause division. The greatest division in the church is between the pulpit and the pew . . .

1Cor.3
[3] For ye are yet carnal: for whereas there is among you envying, and strife, and divisions, are ye not carnal, and walk as men?

Preaching without a pulpit?

However could we maintain the division between pulpit and pew?

The next thing you know, someone would believe that the term "MINISTER" means servant.

Oh dear!! Such heresy!

The Romans used the word pulpitum to describe both the raised wooden speaker's platform and the actor's stage. The Hebrew word miḡdal is translated everywhere else in our Bibles as tower. In the Greek LXX the word found in Nehemiah is βήματος, which is translated in the New Testament as throne, judgement seat, tribunal, it is well known as the BEMA, which is stepped high platform where a seat is located at the very top. In Nehemiah it may of been a wooden scaffold, instead of a stone stepped platform.

So, preaching isn't confined to a building with stage and lectern?

[Evang.Benincasa]

Originally Posted by Esaias

The women ruled over them, and their leaders cause them to err. Those leaders would include the women ruling over them.

Yes, it's a problem in the nation today. And the cause today is the same as back then. And the outcome is also basically the same.