UPCI's Randy Hollis Throws Down the Gauntlet: The Emancipation of Isaac

[tv1a]

The lack of depth of your point is astounding. A legalist tactic of attempting to change the paraemeters and definitions of the discussion and to distort the opinion. It has been established there is a difference between legalism and convictions. Don't turn this into something it isn't. Convictions shoudl be based on biblical principle. Legalism is selective application of principle a la' anti-television/pro internet. Legalism is controlling and manipulative. Legalism says you are going to hell if you don't agree with me. Scriptures says legalism is demonic. Too bad that rubs your theology the wrong way.

Originally Posted by Jekyll

I congratulate you on giving up legalism. The bandwagon is stretching convictions into legalism.

I second Coon's sentiments.

[Jekyll]

Originally Posted by tv1a

The lack of depth of your point is astounding. A legalist tactic of attempting to change the paraemeters and definitions of the discussion and to distort the opinion. It has been established there is a difference between legalism and convictions. Don't turn this into something it isn't. Convictions shoudl be based on biblical principle. Legalism is selective application of principle a la' anti-television/pro internet. Legalism is controlling and manipulative. Legalism says you are going to hell if you don't agree with me. Scriptures says legalism is demonic. Too bad that rubs your theology the wrong way.

My sentiments exactly. Why do you exclude faith from being a biblical principle? My convictions are based on the Bible and faith. My convictions are not salvational to my neighbor.

Principles and ideals as far as a television go are subjective and people don't agree as to its effects or its degredation of social values. While the bible doesn't mention TV or many modern things ITS PRINCIPLES are the basis for not allowing those things to be included in my lifestyle. Don't turn this into something it isn't and don't try to paint people what they aren't.

You have an axe to grind, go grind it. I don't thing that there's much left to grind, though, you've been at it for awhile.

[staysharp]

Originally Posted by Jekyll

My sentiments exactly. Why do you exclude faith from being a biblical principle? My convictions are based on the Bible and faith. My convictions are not salvational to my neighbor.

Principles and ideals as far as a television go are subjective and people don't agree as to its effects or its degredation of social values. While the bible doesn't mention TV or many modern things ITS PRINCIPLES are the basis for not allowing those things to be included in my lifestyle. Don't turn this into something it isn't and don't try to paint people what they aren't.

You have an axe to grind, go grind it. I don't thing that there's much left to grind, though, you've been at it for awhile.

Dr. Jekyll, just wondering if you've been talking with Mr. Hyde lately?

Do you honestly believe people will go to hell for subjective convictions?

I really want to know. The reason is this, I just left the most wicked legalistic church and they believed if you didn't tow the line, you were hell bound. The problem was this; none of them did tow the line, they just wanted everybody to think they did.

In your heart, do you really believe people that do not agree with you in your convictions, are going to hell? I mean burn in torment for eternity hell.

[Hawkman]

Originally Posted by Coonskinner

That's sort of like saying "The hangnail is the last great medical crisis facing our nation."

I don't run into very many true legalists.

Maybe you don't, but I know far too many TRUE legalists in this organization. These real deal legalists have run off more children of God than liberals ever have.

[Coonskinner]

Originally Posted by staysharp

Dr. Jekyll, just wondering if you've been talking with Mr. Hyde lately?

Do you honestly believe people will go to hell for subjective convictions?

I really want to know. The reason is this, I just left the most wicked legalistic church and they believed if you didn't tow the line, you were hell bound. The problem was this; none of them did tow the line, they just wanted everybody to think they did.

In your heart, do you really believe people that do not agree with you in your convictions, are going to hell? I mean burn in torment for eternity hell.

This explains a lot.

[Coonskinner]

Originally Posted by Hawkman

Maybe you don't, but I know far too many TRUE legalists in this organization. These real deal legalists have run off more children of God than liberals ever have.

Run off children of God?

Huh?

If you let a legalist get between you and God, the legalist is closer than you are.

[Encryptus]

Pastor CS,

At least in this thread we are in lockstep. :-)

It is true a pastor may wish to impose extra-Biblical standards on the congregation he leads. But he is the one who will be accountable on judgment day.

Furthermore, while we may debate the merits of those standards, rebellion against authority, those you recognize as being over you (whether pastor or organizational leaders) is sin.

To say I realize what I am signing is a lie, but you don't know what movies they watch.....

Really hard to believe that logic would come from an Apostolic pastor.

Sounds like when I correct my teenager, "But Dad everyone else is doing it"

Wonder how well that line will work in eternity?

Opps almost forgot my smiley so everyone will know this post is in the right spirit.

[Coonskinner]

Originally Posted by Encryptus

Pastor CS,

At least in this thread we are in lockstep. :-)

It is true a pastor may wish to impose extra-Biblical standards on the congregation he leads. But he is the one who will be accountable on judgment day.

Furthermore, while we may debate the merits of those standards, rebellion against authority, those you recognize as being over you (whether pastor or organizational leaders) is sin.

To say I realize what I am signing is a lie, but you don't know what movies they watch.....

Really hard to believe that logic would come from an Apostolic pastor.

Sounds like when I correct my teenager, "But Dad everyone else is doing it"

Wonder how well that line will work in eternity?

Opps almost forgot my smiley so everyone will know this post is in the right spirit.

It's nice when we can find something to agree on.

[revrandy]

there is a easier route if you can't line up with the teaching of said Pastor and struggle daily with said Pastor...there are options...

1. Repent, and Start living what your Pastor preaches...
2. Find a Pastor where you can successfully live for God ..

and finally remember there is NO perfect situation anywhere...it will be what you make it...

[Hawkman]

Originally Posted by Coonskinner

Run off children of God?

Huh?

If you let a legalist get between you and God, the legalist is closer than you are.

In a perfect world, you are so right. However our people (UPC) are taught to put so much stock in their pastor that far too many of them put him on a pedastal. When the legalist starts to beat them over the head with their legalisms it is not too hard to see how they can be run off!

Don't act like you don't have a clue. I know you are way smarter than that. Maybe you are a conservative of integrity and really do love the sheep but there are those who are what you aren't. Those men almost relish in the fact that they have been able to run someone off who dared to ask questions and didn't conform quick enough.