They have no shame

[Originalist]

Originally Posted by J.A. Perez

Brother, It doesn't matter who this was addressed to. The point (the principal) is that if you don't give God his portion through tithe and offering, whomever it is. This is how God feels about it,

"Will a man rob God? Yet ye have robbed me. But ye say, Wherein have we robbed thee? In tithes and offerings. Ye are cursed with a curse: for ye have robbed me."

That should make any thief that robs God tremble.

God has always reserved for himself a portion, and I don't want to guilty of keeping it from him.

Several times now we've proven that "a man robbing god" was speaking of the priests.

[Originalist]

Originally Posted by J.A. Perez

KeptByTheWord, I appreciate your responses and I respect your position, but please consider ours.




Every paycheck is a blessing every increase in income is a blessing, and any money you make Rich or poor is a blessing.

The apostle Paul didn't want to take up an offering of money when he showed up, so he said take care of it before I get there. "as God has prospered him" is in direct reference to 'your increase' look it up comes out that way every time.

1 Corinthians 16:2
Upon the first day of the week let every one of you lay by him in store, as God hath prospered him, that there be no gatherings when I come.


The implication is, that there is in no doubt in the new testament writers written thought that tithing was not understood. In fact The Apostle here just said Take care of it before I get there, because the Lord has been good to you. He didn't even second guess that they would have any doubt what to give.

Not one new testament writer explained how 'if what you believe is right' tithes are no longer in effect because of the New Covenant or because of the passing of the Levitical, ceremonial law or Old Covenant. If this was to be done away with, don't you think this would have been made clear by one of the writers of the new testament? The result is that we are to continue in those thing which we have been taught by word or epistle.

Tithes is not a payment, it is respecting God enough to understand that he has always reserved portion for himself. That we would always be conscience that he is our El Shaddai, he is our provider.

Just like in the Garden of Eden. They were given it all, except the one in which God kept for himself. He has always reserved a portion for himself.

God Bless You sis.

You keep speaking of a "precept". There is no such precept found in scripture. Before the Law we see it mentioned a couple of times, not commanded by God. One was a guy tithing on stolen property. The other was making a deal with God. No precept.

In the Law a very limited class was required to tithe, in spite of your ridiculous claim that "everyone was required to tithe". Again, no "precept".

And your other claim that.....

Not one new testament writer explained how 'if what you believe is right' tithes are no longer in effect because of the New Covenant or because of the passing of the Levitical, ceremonial law or Old Covenant. If this was to be done away with, don't you think this would have been made clear by one of the writers of the new testament?

Again, the only instituted tithe ever taught in scripture is the one found in the ceremonial law that passed away. Now you do believe the ceremonial law passed away, don't you? Actually, the burden of proof is on YOU to show where one part of the ceremonial law was passed on to the church in a new form (hard currency) as a way to support the ministry. You simply have not and cannot do that.

The Levites tithed to Melchizedek through their father Abraham, so do we. We give to the church, the Israelite Gave to the temple.

Then as a son of Abraham I too have already paid my tithes to Melchizedek.

[Originalist]

Originally Posted by KeptByTheWord

I most certainly have considered yours - I was raised under it, and I know it very, very well!

The Lord delivered me from it, and praise God, I am still a giver... maybe giving even more now than I did before. How does that work?

Because God blesses giving! Giving is the principle that God blesses. You can never, ever outgive the Lord. But giving is not just in monetary things... giving means your time, your prayers, pitching in to help others... helping those in your community less fortunate than yourself... giving is wide open. Don't limit yourself to a 10%. Open your heart up and give all you have, especially first to your family, and then to your brothers and sisters in the Lord. Giving is not limited to a one man show!

Let go of the 10% mandatory tithe, and accept the fact that God wants a heart that gives back as the Lord has prospered. Giving is the principle that works, not the 10%.

And further... the reason Paul did not detail why the tithe had changed, was because in most of the letters written in the NT, they were written to Gentiles who had never practiced the Jewish tithe anyway. So if anything, Paul should have been very specific in teaching the Gentiles how to give their 10% mandatory tithe offering to those unlearned in the law. But he didn't. He taught giving - be ready to give up all, if necessary for the cause of Christ. Hold nothing back. Give and love one another, as Christ loved you. That is the true principle of giving.
10% tithe is a tax. It hinders the work that God is trying to do. Prayerfully reconsider your stance. God will bless you for it. Jump off the cliff into God's safety net of giving... and God Bless you too!

The emboldened is so true!!

[Originalist]

Full Definition of PRECEPT


1: a command or principle intended especially as a general rule of action


2: an order issued by legally constituted authority to a subordinate official


No such command is found in Bible prior to the law. The command during the time of the Law was very limited in scope and applied to a system that was abolished.

[J.A. Perez]

Originally Posted by Originalist

Full Definition of PRECEPT


1: a command or principle intended especially as a general rule of action


2: an order issued by legally constituted authority to a subordinate official


No such command is found in Bible prior to the law. The command during the time of the Law was very limited in scope and applied to a system that was abolished.

Does it have to be a command in order for it to be a precept?

By your definition it is evident, you are mistaken in your assumption.

Ps.

I have some very important tests I'll be taking over the next couple days and a Graduation to attend. I will not be able to respond for a week or so.
But I will eventually if one merits.

[Originalist]

Originally Posted by J.A. Perez

Does it have to be a command in order for it to be a precept?

By your definition it is evident, you are mistaken in your assumption.

Ps.

I have some very important tests I'll be taking over the next couple days and a Graduation to attend. I will not be able to respond for a week or so.
But I will eventually if one merits.

That is not MY definition. That is from the dictiionary.

May God bless you on your tests! You'll do great.

[KeptByTheWord]

Originally Posted by FlamingZword

Well you are kicking hard against the ministry of the Lord, just returning the favor.

The early Christians gave it all, not just the tithe.

If you do not want to give just a tithe, do not give, God does not need your money at all, God does not want your money, you can keep it all.

I do not care if you tithe or don't tithe, it does not affect me in the least bit.

and yes I will keep on teaching the tithe, if you do not like it or agree with it, well deal with it.

This from a man who has claimed that he has translated the Bible into an Apostolic version, while ignoring facts that have been presented here, and continuing to believe 10% mandatory tithing that is without basis in NT writing, and condemning anyone who disagrees... hmm.

[KeptByTheWord]

Originally Posted by Originalist

In the Law a very limited class was required to tithe, in spite of your ridiculous claim that "everyone was required to tithe". Again, no "precept".

Again, the only instituted tithe ever taught in scripture is the one found in the ceremonial law that passed away. Now you do believe the ceremonial law passed away, don't you? Actually, the burden of proof is on YOU to show where one part of the ceremonial law was passed on to the church in a new form (hard currency) as a way to support the ministry. You simply have not and cannot do that.

No burden of proof here, just more mocking, and rabbit trails. Because they have no proof, and can only offer the rabbit trails as a smoke screen to divert attention from the fact that their case has no basis in NT writings.

[Sean]

Originally Posted by KeptByTheWord

The tithing doctrine has really hindered the church. The folks on here defending the tithes doctrine are almost exclusively ministers who no doubt have their lives built around the income that they get from the tithing doctrine, and I can see where it would be hard to acknowledge the truth that has been presented here.

But if you really want to be pleasing in the eyes of the Lord... try Him.

I challenge each one of you ministers whose income is supported by the 10% tithe.. step out in faith, since you are obviously involved in the work of the Lord... and try the Lord... stop teaching the 10%, and explain to the congregation the error of that doctrine, and instead teach them to give as unto the Lord, and that no mandatory 10% tithe will ever be a part of your church doctrine. Test the Lord... and see what will happen.

Others have done it (Votive mentioned one who did it)... you can too... and just see what the Lord will do.

Maybe the rejection of this doctrine will allow true men of God to rise up who aren't fleecing the sheep, and the church that has been set back by this damning doctrine will rise up again to the glory and power that it was meant to have, like the early NT church had.

You can't out give the Lord. We don't tithe, but we give, and we give wherever there is a need. We give to our sisters and brothers in the Lord. We give to local charitable organizations. We give to our family members, especially our parents. Giving is a way of life for us, and that hasn't changed since we stopped giving the 10% tithe. And God has blessed.

God blesses giving... now that is a principle you can count on! Throw the tithe doctrine out the window, and trust God for the rest. Take the leap of faith. God's safety net of giving will catch you

I guess if the saints are to walk by faith, it is about time the ministry learned to walk by faith!

Great post.

[KeptByTheWord]

Originally Posted by Originalist

May God bless you on your tests! You'll do great.

Agreed!