Why I Am A Futurist

[mfblume]

Look at all the references to HIS COMING before Matt 24 to understand what Matt 24 was about.

Matthew 10:23 But when they persecute you in this city, flee ye into another: for verily I say unto you, Ye shall not have gone over the cities of Israel, till the Son of man be come.

Matthew 16:28 Verily I say unto you, There be some standing here, which shall not taste of death, till they see the Son of man coming in his kingdom.

Matthew 21:40 When the lord therefore of the vineyard cometh, what will he do unto those husbandmen?

Matthew 21:43-45 Therefore say I unto you, The kingdom of God shall be taken from you, and given to a nation bringing forth the fruits thereof. (44) And whosoever shall fall on this stone shall be broken: but on whomsoever it shall fall, it will grind him to powder. (45) And when the chief priests and Pharisees had heard his parables, they perceived that he spake of them.

Matthew 23:35-37 That upon you may come all the righteous blood shed upon the earth, from the blood of righteous Abel unto the blood of Zacharias son of Barachias, whom ye slew between the temple and the altar. (36) Verily I say unto you, All these things shall come upon this generation. (37) O Jerusalem, Jerusalem, thou that killest the prophets, and stonest them which are sent unto thee, how often would I have gathered thy children together, even as a hen gathereth her chickens under her wings, and ye would not!

THAT is the coming that Matt 24 is talking about. And it's not the second coming.

[good samaritan]

When scripture says for not seal up the words in this book. I take that literally. The words are not sealed up there in the Bible. If anyone tells me they understand indisputably everything in the book of revelation I question there integrity.

[Sean]

No judgement involved as long as you dont read the continuation of the passage in 1 Thes. 5.
The following is a previous post that shows 1 Thes. 4, continuing into chapter 5....





Lets see if Paul in 1 Thes. 4 and 5 was quoting Jesus about Matt. 24(also 25).....



Paul quotes what Jesus already spoke of prior(notice "WE SAY" as in the Apostles say, not just Paul)

15 For this we say unto you by the word of the Lord, that we which are alive and remain unto the coming of the Lord shall not prevent them which are asleep.(common knowledge)


The catching away parallel...

Matt 24:40 Then shall two be in the field; the one shall be taken, and the other left.

41 Two women shall be grinding at the mill; the one shall be taken, and the other left.

1 Thes. 4:15 For this we say unto you by the word of the Lord, that we which are alive and remain unto the coming of the Lord shall not prevent them which are asleep.

16 For the Lord himself shall descend from heaven with a shout, with the voice of the archangel, and with the trump of God: and the dead in Christ shall rise first:

17 Then we which are alive and remain shall be caught up together with them in the clouds, to meet the Lord in the air: and so shall we ever be with the Lord.


The thief parallel.....

42 Watch therefore: for ye know not what hour your Lord doth come.

43 But know this, that if the goodman of the house had known in what watch the thief would come, he would have watched, and would not have suffered his house to be broken up.

44 Therefore be ye also ready: for in such an hour as ye think not the Son of man cometh.


1 Thes. 5:1 But of the times and the seasons, brethren, ye have no need that I write unto you.

2 For yourselves know perfectly that the day of the Lord so cometh as a thief in the night.

3 For when they shall say, Peace and safety; then sudden destruction cometh upon them, as travail upon a woman with child; and they shall not escape.

4 But ye, brethren, are not in darkness, that that day should overtake you as a thief.




The drunken servant parallel....

46 Blessed is that servant, whom his lord when he cometh shall find so doing.

47 Verily I say unto you, That he shall make him ruler over all his goods.

48 But and if that evil servant shall say in his heart, My lord delayeth his coming;

49 And shall begin to smite his fellowservants, and to eat and drink with the drunken;

50 The lord of that servant shall come in a day when he looketh not for him, and in an hour that he is not aware of,

51 And shall cut him asunder, and appoint him his portion with the hypocrites: there shall be weeping and gnashing of teeth.

1 Thes. 5:5 Ye are all the children of light, and the children of the day: we are not of the night, nor of darkness.

6 Therefore let us not sleep, as do others; but let us watch and be sober.

7 For they that sleep sleep in the night; and they that be drunken are drunken in the night.(dont forget the "sleeping 5 virgins" of Matt 25 also)

Notice the SEQUENCIAL parallels of the 2 passages.

Accidental?

I dont think so.

[mfblume]

Originally Posted by good samaritan

When scripture says for not seal up the words in this book. I take that literally. The words are not sealed up there in the Bible. If anyone tells me they understand indisputably everything in the book of revelation I question there integrity.

The words being sealed is describing this sort of thing:

Isaiah 29:11 And the vision of all is become unto you as the words of a book that is sealed, which men deliver to one that is learned, saying, Read this, I pray thee: and he saith, I cannot; for it is sealed:

They're NOT sealed now like they were before John. That mean WE CAN KNOW if we study prayerfully and seek God.

[good samaritan]

Originally Posted by mfblume

Look at all the
references to HIS COMING before Matt 24 to understand what Matt 24 was about.

Matthew 10:23 But when they persecute you in this city, flee ye into another: for verily I say unto you, Ye shall not have gone over the cities of Israel, till the Son of man be come.

Matthew 16:28 Verily I say unto you, There be some standing here, which shall not taste of death, till they see the Son of man coming in his kingdom.

Matthew 21:40 When the lord therefore of the vineyard cometh, what will he do unto those husbandmen?

Matthew 21:43-45 Therefore say I unto you, The kingdom of God shall be taken from you, and given to a nation bringing forth the fruits thereof. (44) And whosoever shall fall on this stone shall be broken: but on whomsoever it shall fall, it will grind him to powder. (45) And when the chief priests and Pharisees had heard his parables, they perceived that he spake of them.

Matthew 23:35-37 That upon you may come all the righteous blood shed upon the earth, from the blood of righteous Abel unto the blood of Zacharias son of Barachias, whom ye slew between the temple and the altar. (36) Verily I say unto you, All these things shall come upon this generation. (37) O Jerusalem, Jerusalem, thou that killest the prophets, and stonest them which are sent unto thee, how often would I have gathered thy children together, even as a hen gathereth her chickens under her wings, and ye would not!

THAT is the coming that Matt 24 is talking about. And it's not the second coming.

I don't have a problem buying into some of your A. D. 70 but just as you take quickly literally I take come literally.

[mfblume]

I certainly don't know everything for sure. lol But to say no one CAN know the overall prophecy correctly is patently wrong in my opinion. the books are not sealed. That means they are not something we cannot know. Where did this idea come from that Revelation cannot be known? I heard many say it. The word REVELATION and APOCALYPSE means REVEALED! It's not the book of HIDING. It's the book of REVEALING.

And everyone in John's day was meant to KNOW what John wrote. Because the books were UNSEALED unlike Daniels' day. It's a horrible tragedy for folks to say we cannot know the Book of Revelation and prophecy since the book is unsealed.

[mfblume]

Originally Posted by good samaritan

I don't have a problem buying into some of your A. D. 70 but just as you take quickly literally I take come literally.

How can you take come literally in Matt 21:40. How can you take it literally in Matt 16:28 and Matt 10:23? He did literally come, though. LITERAL means "in the sense the text intended for us to understand it." So if the text intended a non physical coming, then technically it is literally true He came in AD70.

Read this. God USED ROME as He used ASSYRIA and said it was HIS ANGER.

Isaiah 10:5-6 O Assyrian, the rod of mine anger, and the staff in their hand is mine indignation. (6) I will send him against an hypocritical nation, and against the people of my wrath will I give him a charge, to take the spoil, and to take the prey, and to tread them down like the mire of the streets.

[Sean]

Matthew 24:27

27 For as the lightning cometh out of the east, and shineth even unto the west(instantaneously) so shall also the coming of the Son of man be.(instantaneously)


Rev. 22:
12 And, behold, I come quickly; and my reward is with me, to give every man according as his work shall be....

20 He which testifieth these things saith, Surely I come quickly. Amen. Even so, come, Lord Jesus.

[good samaritan]

Originally Posted by mfblume

How can you take come literally in Matt 21:40. How can you take it literally in Matt 16:28 and Matt 10:23? He did literally come, though. LITERAL means "in the sense the text intended for us to understand it." So if the text intended a non physical coming, then technically it is literally true He came in AD70.


Read this. God USED ROME as He used ASSYRIA and said it was HIS ANGER.

Isaiah 10:5-6 O Assyrian, the rod of mine anger, and the staff in their hand is mine indignation. (6) I will send him against an hypocritical nation, and against the people of my wrath will I give him a charge, to take the spoil, and to take the prey, and to tread them down like the mire of the streets.

My point is not that some of your A. D. 70 fulfillment is wrong, but that you are taking some things literally and some things figuratively and you do it to support your beliefs. When you say the Lord has returned in A. D. 70 any futurists is going to miss what you really believe. Although you are disagreeing about Matthew you don't really disagree about it being as a thief in the night as in sudden and unexpectedly. The resurrection I'm saying. I'm trying to see the common ground.

[mfblume]

Originally Posted by good samaritan

My point is not that some of your A. D. 70 fulfillment is wrong, but that you are taking some things literally and some things figuratively and you do it to support your beliefs. When you say the Lord has returned in A. D. 70 any futurists is going to miss what you really believe. Although you are disagreeing about Matthew you don't really disagree about it being as a thief in the night as in sudden and unexpectedly. The resurrection I'm saying. I'm trying to see the common ground.

Fair enough. But the coming in Matthew 24 is only in destruction not resurrection. And no verses refer to the resurrection in that others either. But as far as whether coming is literal or not, I'm getting my views based upon what the bible says about the term in the passages i cited. I can't see a physical return in Matthew 10, 16 or 23. It's not that i choose to believe one tHing is physical and the other isn't. It's just that he physically never came with some of them having not yet tasted death, but yet he said he'd come then. Same with Matthew 21:40. He said he'd come and take the kingdom away from the Pharisees and give it to another nation. That wasn't a physical coming either. But yet he called it his coming. So i accept it and it's ramifications.