Trying to Rescue Another from HMH Doctrine

[Jay]

Who said anything about works based salvation? We are discussing obedience to the Word of God.

[Dordrecht]

Originally Posted by Jay

Who said anything about works based salvation? We are discussing obedience to the Word of God.

Ray, you know better than that!

It was in reference to this: "What is the whole listing of those things required to make it into the kingdom of God?"

THERE IS NO LIST.

All one needs to do is repent and accept what Christ did!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

HAVE YOU NEVER HEARD THAT?????

[Sam]

Originally Posted by Michael The Disciple

In my opinion Paul was teaching that when women pray or prophesy as part of the body ministry they are to put on a veil or headcovering of some kind showing they are under a mans headship. Also as a reinforcing point he uses natures covering of a womans long hair to show that it is in order for a woman to have a covering on her head.

I dont see anything about it being wrong for a woman to trim her hair tho it seems to be teaching their hair should be long.

For a woman to appear in public (and Paul also included being in the assembly as being in public) it was considered immodest for a woman to appear without a veil. It was an insult/dishonor to her head/husband.

The appeal to "nature" as far as the difference between men and women wearing veils and for hair length for men and women may have been an appeal to "the natural world around you" i.e. customs in Corinth. From what ii understand, part of some of the sexual celebrations practiced among Corinthians were women shaving their heads and dressing like men and men wearing long hair or wearing veils like women.

[Dordrecht]

Yes, and you know why women had to keep their mouths shut in church?

I tell you why:

They were preaching that the old men needed to be crucified,
and all the women started to scream like crazy.

They thought their old men would be picked up by the Romans.
And THAT'S WHEN THEY WERE TOLD TO BE SILENT IN CHURCH!

[Michael Phelps]

Originally Posted by Jay

As he is going to answer to God for the saints under his care, the pastor would be the authority. She is to submit to the leadership of her husband only in as much as he is both submission to God and the pastor. If any of them contradict the word of God, then she should examine her options, but that was not the topic under discussion.

My sole point was that Bro. Epley's comment was relevant to the discussion at hand.

This is more confusing than an IRS long form.

[Dordrecht]

Originally Posted by Michael Phelps

This is more confusing than an IRS long form.

There are more confusing things going around here, lol

[Sam]

I'm old enough to remember when "long hair" for women meant longer than men's hair styles which were pretty short back in the late 1940's and 1950's. "Long hair" on women might be trimmed and shaped but it came pretty close to the shoulders or even to the shoulders or maybe just past the shoulders. And bangs were acceptable. Women and men had distinct hair styles and did not look like each other.

[Dordrecht]

Bangs?????

[Sam]

Originally Posted by Dordrecht

Bangs?????

yeppers, used to see them on some of the ladies and girls back in the day

The idea of "long" meaning "uncut" came along later among some Apostolic/Pentecostals. It was popularized by Murray Burr and others jumped on that bandwagon. Even after he left the UPC when not given the Gen. Supt. job others who remained in the UPC sang his song and repeated his mantra about "uncut is long" and "shorn means cut, trimmed, or altering the length in any way"

Eld. Epley probably has an autographed copy of Murray Burr's little pamphlet on that.

[Theophil]

Originally Posted by Sam

I appreciate Eld. Epley. He and I may not always agree but I respect him and appreciate him.

Why?