Crossdressing...Just how does a woman participate?

[Praxeas]

Originally Posted by Pressing-On

What is your point? I'm simply saying it didn't start in European society.

It was started by pagans...that was the point I made earlier wasn't it?

[mfblume]

Originally Posted by Pressing-On

I don't care for them, but I'm not going to tell anyone that they can't wear them. And I am really in the conversation to ferret out when women started wearing them, who started the trend, etc. I've read on other threads, in the past, some writing that Chinese women always wore them and I'm finding out that is not true. In ancient China, which I already posted, only soldiers wore trousers. So, move from the standards issue and give me information. I'm interested in reading it. lol

What about ancient chinese women in the rice fields? I heard that is where it started. that was the case in the Han Dynasty.

Also...

[edit]Antiquity


Scythian archer. Interior from an Ancient Greek Attic red-figure plate, ca. 520–500 BC, from Vulci. British Museum, London.

Germanic trousers of the 4th century found in the Thorsberg moor, Germany

Trousers first enter recorded history in the 6th century BCE, with the appearance of horse-riding Iranian peoples in Greek ethnography. At this time, not only the Persians, but also allied Central Asian peoples such as the Bactrians, Armenians, and the Tigraxauda Scythians are known to have worn them.[4][5] Trousers are believed to have been worn by both sexes among these early users.

...from

^ Payne, Blanche. History of Costume. Harper & Row , 1965. pp. 49–51
^ book name: The Persian Army 560–330 BC, Author: Nicholas Sekunda, Illustrator: Simon Chew – http://www.ospreypublishing.com/stor...bookcode=p2501
^ Lever, James. Costume and Fashion: A Concise History. Thames and Hudson, 1995, 2010. p. 15.

[Pressing-On]

Originally Posted by mfblume

What about ancient chinese women in the rice fields? I heard that is where it started.

See? We've started out with conflicting information.

[Praxeas]

Originally Posted by Praxeas

Prove this!

Women started wearing pants when men went off to war and the woman had to go to work outside the home

Fashions have always changed.

Men wore pants because they were the ones fighting and working in the fields.

Men and women have worn pants in history, before the modern era. So, tell us, when man first put on a pair of pants and tossed his skirts or robes, was he being rebellious too?

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Trousers
Trousers first enter recorded history in the 6th century BCE, with the appearance of horse-riding Iranian peoples in Greek ethnography. At this time, not only the Persians, but also allied Central Asian peoples such as the Bactrians, Armenians, and the Tigraxauda Scythians are known to have worn them.[4][5] Trousers are believed to have been worn by both sexes among these early users


Aside from the sidesaddle, you don't have a clue what you are talkikng about. You know what kind of women rode horses all those years? The ones that could afford them. The aristocrats. Those women did not work. They were always dressed to the 9s did not want to ruin their clothing. Dresses for them were the fashions of the day

In Europe, the sidesaddle developed in part because cultural norms for the upper social classes dictated that it was unbecoming for a woman of apparent wealth or high social status to straddle a horse while riding. Further, since long skirts were the required fashion, riding astride in such attire was often impractical and awkward, and it could be "immodest." However, women of status did ride horses and needed to be able to control their own animals, so there was a need for a saddle designed to allow both control of the horse and modesty for the rider

However, in spite of cultural pressures, not all women of the nobility adopted the sidesaddle at all times. Women such as Diane de Poitiers (mistress to Henry II of France) and Marie Antoinette were known to ride astride. Catherine the Great of Russia went so far as to commission a portrait showing her riding astride wearing a male officer's uniform
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sidesaddle

BUMP

[Pressing-On]

Originally Posted by Praxeas

It was started by pagans...that was the point I made earlier wasn't it?

I guess you did, which didn't have anything to do with what I was talking about.

[Praxeas]

When the Manchu ruled China during the Qing Dynasty, certain social strata emerged. Among them were the Banners (qí), mostly Manchu, who as a group were called Banner People (旗人 pinyin: qí rén). Manchu women typically wore a one-piece dress that retrospectively came to be known as the qípáo (旗袍 or banner gown). The generic term for both the male and the female forms of Manchu dress, essentially similar garments, was chángpáo (長袍). The qipao fitted loosely and hung straight down the body, or flared slightly in an A-line. Under the dynastic laws after 1636, all Han Chinese in the banner system were forced to wear a queue and dress in Manchurian qipao instead of traditional Han Chinese clothing (剃发易服), under penalty of death (along with the July 1645 edict (the "haircutting order") that forced all adult Han Chinese men to shave the front of their heads and comb the remaining hair into a queue, on pain of death). Until 1911, the changpao was required clothing for Chinese men of a certain class, but Han Chinese women continued to wear loose jacket and trousers, with an overskirt for formal occasions. The qipao was a new fashion item for Han Chinese women when they started wearing it around 1925.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cheongsam

[mfblume]

Originally Posted by Pressing-On

See? We've started out with conflicting information.

I edited my post and added historical documentation and it said nothing about rice fields.

[Praxeas]

Originally Posted by Pressing-On

I guess you did, which didn't have anything to do with what I was talking about.

You said it began with the Persians. Persians were pagans/heathens. Pagans therefore invented pants...in the grand tradition of UltraConism and condemning things like rings and stuff for originating with pagans, I declared then that all men should not wear pants.

[hometown guy]

Originally Posted by Praxeas

You said it began with the Persians. Persians were pagans/heathens. Pagans therefore invented pants...in the grand tradition of UltraConism and condemning things like rings and stuff for originating with pagans, I declared then that all men should not wear pants.

So are you going to start wearing skirts now since you got this revalation?

[Pressing-On]

Originally Posted by Praxeas

You said it began with the Persians. Persians were pagans/heathens. Pagans therefore invented pants...in the grand tradition of UltraConism and condemning things like rings and stuff for originating with pagans, I declared then that all men should not wear pants.

So, you were coming from a snarky point of view. I never would have guessed that, Prax!