Charismatic Bishop In Lawsuit.

[rgcraig]

Originally Posted by DAII

I think that's why he used the quotes ...

He didn't use them the first time.

[berkeley]

Renda,
I agree, in part. Many men on the down low do not identify as gay, or homosexual. There are different reasons that a man has sex with another man. Physical attraction doesn't have to be one of them. Some do it for a no strings attached release. Others were sexually abused at a young age, and they may act out in this perverse manner because it gives them a sense of control over the situation.

[rgcraig]

Originally Posted by Berkley

Renda,
I agree, in part. Many men on the down low do not identify as gay, or homosexual. There are different reasons that a man has sex with another man. Physical attraction doesn't have to be one of them. Some do it for a no strings attached release. Others were sexually abused at a young age, and they may act out in this perverse manner because it gives them a sense of control over the situation.

I understand the term. I think it would be better to say they want to appear straight.

[BeenThinkin]

Let me post one more time and then I'll try to shut up! I don't know MOW, have no reason to go to bat for him other than I think he was falsely accused.

The news media reported on Bishop Long's being accused by young men in his church. More than one news source mentioned "down low" in their reports.

Google it and you find numerous sources mentioning this behavior.

MOW heard reports I assume, must have heard the "down low" behavior mentioned and then he said this.......


"The Bishop didn't say he was completely innocent at all. He said that he was not the man that they're saying he is. He did not categorically deny that any of this happened. I hope I'm wrong (seriously) but this just seems like he is leaving way too much wiggle room. I am personally aware of this type of behavior among some black preachers. This on the "down-low" behavior has affected far more than we'll ever know. I am not painting with a broad brush, I am only speaking from what I have knowledge of. I know this is a minority who engage is this behavior, but it is NOT behavior that his church folks are clueless about. Maybe clueless regarding him, but not the life style itself.


Why did he mention "down low" behavior? Because the news media was mentioning it, had already mentioned it and it had been associated with the accusations against Bishop Long.

To what group does the "down low" behavior relate? .... I don't know! But it seems everyone else knows. Google it! You'll find report after report saying this is a behavior mostly found in the black community. If this is the case, according to the reports, they made it a racial issue not MOW.


So let's see...... MOW says he hopes Bishop Long is not guilty.

He knows the problem of "down low" is reported in some of the circles where he has been. Not just gay men, but the "down low" description. So MOW is not the one placing this in the black community. It's already there.

Just saying, I think we should be careful about falsely accusing a brother. Oh, well, maybe God doesn't care! Just accuse and accuse and never feel bad about it. Now I'm not accusing, just observing!

I think we'd be better off spending our time praying for Bishop Long and anyone else that may have been "down low" than fighting with each other. All though I guess it's more interesting when we are fighting instead of praying! Seems the threads run longer in the fight!

BT

[DAII]

Originally Posted by rgcraig

I understand the term. I think it would be better to say they want to appear straight.

Or maybe bi?

[ManOfWord]

Originally Posted by Mr. Smith

The problem is, BT, race was NEVER mentioned in this thread, or anywhere else I've seen or heard the Long issue discussed. Honestly, it's never crossed my mind. So why not just say, "I know of this with several preachers" rather than, "Black preachers"? Why even bring it up? I think that's a fair question. Why bring it up? This is a problem in our society, in the ministry, in our schools, etc., and it has NOTHING to do with race. ZILCH. Nothing! Why bring race into the picture when this is NOT a racial problem?

I cannot figure out why MOW would even need to use the word. NO ONE brought it up, until he said it was a problem with black preachers.

So, I get crucified for being factual and honest and speaking from experience instead of rumor.

Originally Posted by BeenThinkin

I did google "down-low" among whites or blacks" and got this response.

Wikipedia,
Down-low is an African-American slang term[1] which refers to a subculture of men who usually identify as heterosexual, but who have sex with men; some avoid sharing this information even if they have female sexual partner(s).[2][3][4][5] The term is also used to refer to a related sexual identity.[5][6]

There were many many more replies, all about "Black men!" ...didn't see any that referred to white men and "down-low!". Maybe I didn't look far enough.

Now should the news media and the blogs be criticied for saying, "black men?"

Maybe I should not admit this but I didn't recognize or know what the term meant!

And Renda gave us 2 or 3 news items speaking about the problem being present in black communities, including the COGIC organization.

I did not detect venom nor an ugly attitude in what MOW posted. (He simply spoke of his own, personal knowledge, and then justified that by saying he had preached for more blacks than whites and had many friends who were black.) I have felt some very harsh response back to him. Why? I don't know.

I really did not take from his post that any of his remarks were racist....just simply facts. Again the news media and other post did not seem to think there was any problem stating that it was a predominantly black issue.

Am I wrong?

Originally Posted by Mr. Smith

"He did not categorically deny that any of this happened. I hope I'm wrong (seriously) but this just seems like he is leaving way too much wiggle room. I am personally aware of this type of behavior among some black preachers. This on the "down-low" behavior has affected far more than we'll ever know."


I don't see in this statement where MOW was saying that blacks are more willing to address the issue than whites.

Of course he didn't insinuate that it ONLY happens in black churches and I don't see where anyone has stated he did. But he said he knows about this behavior among some preachers and he said they were black. He brought race into the issue. No one else did. He opened the barn door and it's hard to convince the horses to go back inside.

Again, I was being specific about what I knew first hand and you say that is a problem and smacks of racism. If you were in my community among my black friends and made that accusation you would be in a firestorm of controversy. I may be some things, but racist doesn't even come close. You make too many assumptions with too little knowledge, which is why you are off base.

Originally Posted by coadie

Wiki has some culture stuff

Who writes wikipedia?



I am the last to be up to date on slang.

Originally Posted by Berkley

Let me school you. DOWN LOW only applies to straight black men that have sex with men. In the hispanic/latino gang culture they have "homie love." Same deal, "straight" men that have sex with men. In high school the jocks are just "helping out a friend." I think most other "straight" men that have sex with men just in the "closet." Some closets with a glass door...

BINGO! This really nails it. In the circles I have "run" in, "down-low" behavior is "straight" black men, which are the only ones I know who are involved in this type of behavior, and that doesn't mean no other ethnic groups are, it's all I am familiar with, (it's just an honest and accurate statement from my experience) and as an aside life-style engage in homosexual behavior but will state that they are not homosexual.

Now anyone else can bring about any other statement they care to or parade other statistics which they care to as well. None of that changes my knowledge and experience or the accuracy of my statements. And honestly, I can take all the attacks anyone wants to dish out.

This is ONLY an internet forum and I really do have a life outside of this. I neither need this place for significance, affirmation or simply to feel good. I just enjoy it from time to time and throw my two cents in. You don't have to agree with it or even like it. But it is MY two cents and you have a right to yours as well.

[CC1]

In this day of political correctness I wonder if one posted that primarily Blacks suffer from sickle cell anemia if Mr. Smith would consider that racist.

The term "on the down low" is very specific to a recent phenomena in Black culture where men who are not typical homosexuals engage in homosexual behaviour in secret. Usually while also engaging in heterosexual behaviour.

I have read about this in mainstream publications. It does not mean white men are not doing the same thing. It is just a term given to this recent behaviour in the Black community.

If you do a little digging you will also find that this behaviour has shown up in some Black Apostolic / Pentecostal / Charismatic churches. Preachers have been caught or accused of homosexual activity while also engaging in heterosexual sex.

[ManOfWord]

Originally Posted by CC1

In this day of political correctness I wonder if one posted that primarily Blacks suffer from sickle cell anemia if Mr. Smith would consider that racist.

The term "on the down low" is very specific to a recent phenomena in Black culture where men who are not typical homosexuals engage in homosexual behaviour in secret. Usually while also engaging in heterosexual behaviour.

I have read about this in mainstream publications. It does not mean white men are not doing the same thing. It is just a term given to this recent behaviour in the Black community.

If you do a little digging you will also find that this behaviour has shown up in some Black Apostolic / Pentecostal / Charismatic churches. Preachers have been caught or accused of homosexual activity while also engaging in heterosexual sex.

Thank you CC1! It's not like this stuff is "secret" and no one knows about it. But there are some who simply like to "fire" THEN "aim." Then they have to spend time on the attack to cover their lack of due diligence in the information or understanding department. To be honest, I've done it before as well, which is why I am much more careful with what I say or post!

[Mr. Smith]

Originally Posted by CC1

In this day of political correctness I wonder if one posted that primarily Blacks suffer from sickle cell anemia if Mr. Smith would consider that racist.

The term "on the down low" is very specific to a recent phenomena in Black culture where men who are not typical homosexuals engage in homosexual behaviour in secret. Usually while also engaging in heterosexual behaviour.

I have read about this in mainstream publications. It does not mean white men are not doing the same thing. It is just a term given to this recent behaviour in the Black community.

If you do a little digging you will also find that this behaviour has shown up in some Black Apostolic / Pentecostal / Charismatic churches. Preachers have been caught or accused of homosexual activity while also engaging in heterosexual sex.

I haven't talked about this term and don't really care about it. Aim your remarks about this term at someone else. I haven't made an issue of it. MOW, you, Billy Graham, and your grandma can talk about "Down low" all you want. I really don't care.

THIS is what I've objected to:

"I am personally aware of this type of behavior among some black preachers."



This shouldn't have been said. He brought race into a discussion and IT DIDN'T BELONG HERE!!!

[Mr. Smith]

Originally Posted by ManOfWord

So, I get crucified for being factual and honest and speaking from experience instead of rumor.





Again, I was being specific about what I knew first hand and you say that is a problem and smacks of racism. If you were in my community among my black friends and made that accusation you would be in a firestorm of controversy. I may be some things, but racist doesn't even come close. You make too many assumptions with too little knowledge, which is why you are off base.





BINGO! This really nails it. In the circles I have "run" in, "down-low" behavior is "straight" black men, which are the only ones I know who are involved in this type of behavior, and that doesn't mean no other ethnic groups are, it's all I am familiar with, (it's just an honest and accurate statement from my experience) and as an aside life-style engage in homosexual behavior but will state that they are not homosexual.

Now anyone else can bring about any other statement they care to or parade other statistics which they care to as well. None of that changes my knowledge and experience or the accuracy of my statements. And honestly, I can take all the attacks anyone wants to dish out.

This is ONLY an internet forum and I really do have a life outside of this. I neither need this place for significance, affirmation or simply to feel good. I just enjoy it from time to time and throw my two cents in. You don't have to agree with it or even like it. But it is MY two cents and you have a right to yours as well.

No one's crucifying you, Mr. Martyr Complex. I called you out because you turned this thread into a racial issue rather than what was being discussed. Your experience does NOT equivocate societal trends. You didn't say, "This is a big problem with preachers", you said, "I am personally aware of this type of behavior among some BLACK preachers." WHY DIDN'T YOU JUST SAY "PREACHERS"?? Why did it need to be "Black preachers"???

Also DO NOT claim that I said your statements "Smack of racism". I didn't say that or anything close. I said you're either ignorant of the facts of national statistical trends of child molestation, OR you're bigoted. I think you're ignoring the facts. I don't want to believe you're bigoted.

I really don't care about your black friends. If you said what you said in MY community (about black preachers), you'd get laughed out of town.

You insinuated that this type of behavior is more problematic in the black ministerial culture than other ministerial cultures and I find that sickening.