WHEW!!Most SCATHING Article On TD Jakes Ever!

[MissBrattified]

Originally Posted by rgcraig

I do understand - it just reads so harsh when all my married life I HAD to work and now for sure I don't have a choice.

I believe God's perfect plan was for the woman to stay home and take care of the home, husband and children. We've messed up a lot of God's perfect plan!

I'm sorry. I didn't mean to be harsh.

It just bothers me so much to see Apostolic homes that are so out of kilter. And I don't hear these things pressed upon from the pulpit very often.

And this new "I'm the Power Behind the Throne-answer to all church problems-ultimate protection for my household" superiority complex is just adding to an existing problem and already negative perspective.

[tstew]

Originally Posted by MissBrattified

*quoting for posterity's sake*

I don't know enough about TD Jakes to like him or dislike him. I do know that wearing an earring isn't enough to tip the scales one way or the other.

I'm not particularly bothered by the pointing out of negative issues. It does bother me, though, to see postings that are dripping with venom, sarcasm and malice, and it makes me doubt the author's intentions.

Can things be addressed in a fashion that doesn't sound like hate?

The Truth Behind Hip Hop sounds interesting.

I have watched many of his DVDs and I do believe that his concern about what is happening in the religious community is genuine and not unfounded. He is very vocal about the prosperity teachings, false prophets..and false profits(I just came up with that...another t-shirt idea ).

He is very vocal about mixing the world in because we are more impressed by their celebrity than their need for Salvation. He has been attacked by some of the biggest names in Gospel music, but he seems to be very effective amongst teens.
The Truth Behind Hip Hop addresses a lot of the spiritual roots of Hip Hop and the dangers of incorporating it into the church the way many are doing it.

[Carpenter]

Originally Posted by MissBrattified

Sister Alvear, working hard and praying does not replace your husband, does it?

It's not a problem of women working and praying. It's a problem of that working and praying woman believing that her work and prayer is superior to and/or more important than that of her husband, and believing that she has more power in the church and home than he does.

It also has to do with women who do not see any need to be keepers at home, who have drank the "I must have a 'real' career" Kool-aid, and who think this scripture doesn't apply to them:


I Corinthians 7:34 There is difference also between a wife and a virgin. The unmarried woman careth for the things of the Lord, that she may be holy both in body and in spirit: but she that is married careth for the things of the world, how she may please her husband.

What Apostolic women in large numbers fail to comprehend is that caring for your home, pleasing your husband and caring for your children IS pleasing to God, and IS obedience to Him. You can pray for hours a day, but if you neglect your husband, children and home, you are not doing God's will. (with the exception of taking "leave" from your husband, with permission. I Cor. 7:5)

. Goodness this is one of the best posts I have ever read. In fact I had to go back and read it three more times. Kind of like smelling a rose. Good job Ms!!

[live4him]

miss bratt i am not saying that the hair is our strength, and i am not saying that woman are taking over, what i was saying is that the men are not up to the plate like they should be, not all men but some, i go to a good church where the men really have a walk with God, but there are some that is falling short, and another thing about woman working, i have to work , my kids are teenagers and i have to help to provide because i have 3 teens and a 10 year old, and things get tough out there financially, so i am working to help provide but on the other hand my kids are going to church and they do have a walk with God and i do not neglect them, but anyway you do have some good points, and by the way i am very submissive to my husband i am not one of those ladies who run the mans life, i am different than that,


and for the comment on craig lewis i have seen some of his teachings and they are great and interesting, whoever reads this ought to check it out, he is talking about bringing the hip hop in to the church, and it is really good preaching, we cannot be conceived about the music, we have to be careful what ya listen too

[Praxeas]

Originally Posted by live4him

miss bratt i am not saying that the hair is our strength, and i am not saying that woman are taking over, what i was saying is that the men are not up to the plate like they should be, not all men but some, i go to a good church where the men really have a walk with God, but there are some that is falling short, and another thing about woman working, i have to work , my kids are teenagers and i have to help to provide because i have 3 teens and a 10 year old, and things get tough out there financially, so i am working to help provide but on the other hand my kids are going to church and they do have a walk with God and i do not neglect them, but anyway you do have some good points, and by the way i am very submissive to my husband i am not one of those ladies who run the mans life, i am different than that,


and for the comment on craig lewis i have seen some of his teachings and they are great and interesting, whoever reads this ought to check it out, he is talking about bringing the hip hop in to the church, and it is really good preaching, we cannot be conceived about the music, we have to be careful what ya listen too

Maybe if the church was not being so feminized they would. I've been told for YEARS how able women are in prayer but not men. I've been told for years how able women are to touch God, but not men. And then what you post just seems to reassert that myth. In our circles it seems that prayer is a female thing...no wonder there aren't enough men stepping up.

[live4him]

Originally Posted by Praxeas

Maybe if the church was not being so feminized they would. I've been told for YEARS how able women are in prayer but not men. I've been told for years how able women are to touch God, but not men. And then what you post just seems to reassert that myth. In our circles it seems that prayer is a female thing...no wonder there aren't enough men stepping up.

i am not saying woman are taking over , why dont you read it again, i am
saying that woman are not to be in control but if men wewre to pray like they should things would be different, i am not cutting down men and second of all we are not feminizing the church, you are taking it wrong, anyway, i am not here to argue, i am here to say that we have to stand behind our hubbys on their calling , and not step in their way

[George]

Originally Posted by crakjak

Wow! Why not leave it down all the time, why bind up the power? This is very disturbing.

You just explained why many churches are dead! The women have bound the power in their buns.

[live4him]

i really think we should quit talking about the MAGIC HOLY HAIR because we could talk all day about why we dont cut our hair and we still cant convince you that the Bible says not to do that, it really is a waist of time if you all cant agrre in one accord

[TRFrance]

Originally Posted by MissBrattified

I think this is a gross overstatement. Taking our entire society into consideration, many homes have two incomes not for the purpose of making ends meet, but so they can afford luxuries (which they call needs), and women want to be financially independent of their husbands.

Sounds great, but its not a biblical ideal.

Within the Apostolic realms, I know MORE women who work outside the home who CAN afford to stay home, but don't because they don't WANT to.

I also know those who need to work, because either their husband doesn't have a job, they are a single Mom, or they really need two incomes to make ends meet--and I am not addressing them.

The point is that within the church I would expect more women to be following a biblical ideal and pattern for the home, and in fact, not only do I not see much of a change, in some cases, I have seen less of that ideal in place...

Not to be contentious sister,but I feel compelled to respond.
Ms Bratt... I appreciate your obvious passion on this issue, but I think your post neglects the economic realities of today compared with even 50-60 years ago, even more-so when compared with Bible times. For an average guy making about $40k, he’ll probably take home $28k after taxes... a little over $2300/month, which is really not a whole lot, especially in many of our cities and metropolitan areas. Lets say he has a wife and 2 or 3 kids. In most households today his one income is not sufficient to cover housing, transportation, utilities, clothing, etc… plus set aside money to save for their own retirement (remember, company-pensions are becoming obsolete!) future college for his kids and just having emergency savings for unexpected household expenses that may come up. These are not luxuries. These are [rightly] considered needs for the average working class/middle class family.

You refer to the "biblical ideal and pattern" for a household, whereby the women stayed home. First of all, nothing in the bible makes any rule about a woman working or not outside the home. Indeed, women stayed home with the kids, but that was more a funcion of socio-economic mores than Biblical command. But you seem to be neglecting the fact that in biblical times, economics were very different. As we all know ....they could grow food at home and not have to buy it at stores....For transportation, a couple of donkeys (which would keep reproducing other donkeys) could serve all their transportation needs ad infinitum...They didnt have to deal with 30-year mortgages in order to own their home...they didnt have to worry about saving money to live on in their retirement years (possibly 20+ years worth of savings to live on)... and most of the good paying jobs back then didnt require 4+ years of college ....etc, etc. So economy-wise, it's apples and oranges. Even the the virtuous woman in Proverbs 31 was a working woman---she just didnt have to leave travel some 20-30+ miles or so to find meaningful work, as many saints do today.

Essentially, women working outside of the home today is for the most part a necessity in order to maintain a decent (non-luxurious) standard of living.

I know that God is very aware of how the economic realities have changed over time, so I dont believe God is as bothered by women leaving the home to work, [supposedly violating the biblical standard] as much as some Apostolics today seem to be.

[Sister Alvear]

Originally Posted by crakjak

Sister, did I miss something or is Bro. Alvear just out of the country?

Yes, he is in the states and has been for over a month...he is preaching at some churches but will be back around 15 th or so of Aug...We are missing him lots.