Apostolic Litumus Test: Do you affirm - Yes or no?

[Tim Rutledge]

Originally Posted by rgcraig

And to quote those that have responded to this before - - where in that scripture does it say anything about "being saved"? They said "what shall we do" - we've added the "to be saved".

1st Peter 3:21. Acts 2:47: Praising God, and having favour with all the people. And the Lord added to the church daily such as should be saved. They had just obeyed Acts 2:38 and the Lord added them to the Church. They were saved.

[Scott Hutchinson]

Yes basically I agree with the AFF statement of faith.

[mizpeh]

Originally Posted by pelathais

So then, even if my own baptism wasn't "perfect" - my faith in Jesus Christ still saves me?

Like Peter puts it- "The like figure whereunto even baptism doth also now save us ... by the resurrection of Jesus Christ." 1 Peter 3:21 Peter tells us how baptism saves us - by what only Jesus Christ Himself could accomplish, the resurrection from the dead.

I was saved and was baptized (Mark 16:16), but it was Jesus Christ Himself who saved me, not my baptism.

He that believes and is baptized shall be saved not he that is saved and is baptized.


Pel, I'm not following the logic of your post. How exactly does the resurrection make baptism salvational?

[Scott Hutchinson]

What is the difference between what must we do and what ought we to do ?
The church started at Pentecost or it didn't.

[pelathais]

Originally Posted by Tim Rutledge

I see where your coming from. But as far as I'm concerned all Apostolics believe being baptised in Jesus name, is essential to salvation. And if you have not been born of the water (baptism), and the Spirit you will not enter the Kingdom of heaven. Their faith/repentance is of course great and essential, but that is not full bible salvation. I discern this subject has been discussed many times.. this is my first time discussing it. When it comes to standards and seperation from the world subjects, I'll let a whole lot slide.. them subjects are for their Pastors. But when it comes to the new birth and the essentiality of Jesus Name baptism, I'll die before I'll recant. I do not apologize for this very basic, Apostolic stance. How are you born of the water, without getting in the water? The blood is applied when repentance is coupled with baptism in Jesus name.

I respect your position as it seems to be pretty much the position I held for most of my life.

I came to see that I was misreading John 3:5 and its context. Jesus is comparing two thing things: being born and being born again (or born from above).

Though the passage does lend itself to different treatments, the simplest way of reading it is to see the "water" as being the natural birth that Nicodemas had already experienced and "the Spirit" was the "born again" experience.

There is a repeated dichotomy in Jesus' argument: "that which is born of flesh is flesh and that which is born of the Spirit is spirit..." (John 3:6). He keeps comparing the natural with the supernatural as in Flesh versus Spirit; water vs. Spirit; womb vs. Spirit.

So it seems to me that the reference Jesus makes to "of water" is related to the womb or flesh, and then He goes on to emphasize the importance of the new birth of the Spirit.

It's like He's saying, "Everyone must be born in the first place - just to be here, obviously (of the water or womb or flesh). However Nicodemas, there is a second birth that comes from "above" which is the Holy Spirit. To enter the Kingdom of God you will need both births - water and Spirit. Natural and supernatural.

[Hoovie]

Originally Posted by Tim Rutledge

Acts 4:12. No other name, given among men, whereby we must be saved. Titles do not remit sin.

Now you are in good company. If a new believer is calling on any other for mercy and salvation he, quite simply, will not find it.

There is no other! It is Christ alone who accomplished the work and if we look to another we are lost.

[Cindy]

Originally Posted by rgcraig

Why? There are no fights here - just discussion.

I cannot Renda, because I believe that a lot of posters compromise the apostle's doctrine and I get upset and get a bad spirit. So I avoid a lot of threads to keep this from happening.

I can explain going to heaven as being with God for eternity.
And baptism in Jesus name, as immersion in water with the words in Jesus name spoken.

No fights, as you said. Which just makes me sadder.

[StillStanding]

Originally Posted by Tim Rutledge

1st Peter 3:21. Acts 2:47: Praising God, and having favour with all the people. And the Lord added to the church daily such as should be saved. They had just obeyed Acts 2:38 and the Lord added them to the Church. They were saved.

I've been reading your posts the last week or so. You seem to be a good man and faithful defender of what you believe. You have a good attitude in your disagreements.

I disagree with you on some issues, but I wish you God's favor and blessings!

[Rhoni]

Originally Posted by Daniel Alicea

From our rules:

Apostolic is defined on AFF as:

Those that believe that every sinner must repent of their sins.
That Jesus name baptism is the only biblical mode of water baptism.
That the Holy Ghost is for today and is received by faith
with the initial evidence of speaking in tongues.
The saint will go on to strive to live a holy life, pleasing to God.
.

Absolutely! Exactly what I believe to be Biblical and true.

Blessings, Rhoni

[pelathais]

Originally Posted by mizpeh

He that believes and is baptized shall be saved not he that is saved and is baptized.


Pel, I'm not following the logic of your post. How exactly does the resurrection make baptism salvational?

You'd have to ask Peter here. I am making the argument as an "argument from authority." That is, I'm simply taking what he says. He said

"The like figure whereunto even baptism doth also now save us (not the putting away of the filth of the flesh, but the answer of a good conscience toward God,) by the resurrection of Jesus Christ."

It is my own belief that I must have faith in the resurrection of Jesus Christ to be saved. Colossians 2:12 seems to follow this same theme. This is, I believe the essence of Romans 10:9.

What saves me at baptism is not the old backslider who did the dunking, nor the water, not the music nor anything that was said or not said. What saved me was my faith in the resurrection of Jesus Christ. This was the point that Bro. Rutledge made as well, though he and I probably differ on the way in which we ennunciate these values.

I am saved by grace through faith at every "step" of my Christian experience. Even if I fall down, I am still sustained by His grace which enables me to get up again and keep on steppin'.