Tithing…Is it a command?

[Digging4Truth]

Originally Posted by NotforSale

c. 3000 - c. 2000 BC Development of Banking in Mesopotamia
Banking originates in Babylonia out of the activities of temples and palaces which provided safe places for the storage of valuables. Initially deposits of grain are accepted and later other goods including cattle, agricultural implements, and precious metals.

This is just a small bit of evidence, showing that the use of money as we know it today, doesn't even compare to that of yesterday. A paycheck, checking account, printing presses, coin factories, or money as we use today wasn't even a part of those in the day you are talking about.

They exchanged in bartering, agriculture, goods, precious metals, ect.

Brother... For most of the history of mankind precious metals WAS money. It is a recent event, historically speaking, that worthless paper was used as money. The first mention of money in the Bible comes before the first mention of the tithe. The first mention of money comes about 1/3 the way into the first book of the Bible. Money has been in use and has been discussed in the Bible from book one.

Originally Posted by NotforSale

Quit using supposable facts to back your stance, when you do not present the facts about money and the economics of past civilizations. Tithing crops was the same as tithing our money today.

I'm not sure what a supposable fact is... but... as mentioned above... money is used, described and discussed from the very first book of the Bible.

Originally Posted by NotforSale

Your hard line approach to avoid the Tithe is typical to those who don't want to share the load. You'll pay your taxes, but you won't pay God, only because the Law of the land says to do so. Oh, but when God puts a Law down, you fight it, because you LOVE money!

I'm being bold here because money is a huge crossroad for people. The rich young ruler went away from God's will, all because of his wealth. The man with full barns was called a fool. Christians today are doing the same thing. I'll serve you God, as long as you don't touch my pocketbook or my barns!

When will people realize, Churches are built upon the backbone of those who Tithe!!

Yes sir... you are being awfully bold. You are evil surmising. You are assuming that you know the thoughts and intents of my heart. You assume that I do not give at least 10% of my income. You are falsely accusing your brother.

yes sir... You certainly are being bold.

And yet still... 66 books....4000 years of history... with money being an object of discussion from the very beginning and there are no scriptures that mention money or a persons wage in relation to the tithe.

Every scripture that mentions the tithe speaks in agricultural terms. Even when the priests were mishandling the tithe and God called them thieves he said he would "open the windows of heaven". Look that phrase up. Every single time it is used in the Bible (Except for Malachi 3 of course) it means rain.

There is not one leg to stand on with this stance exception assumptions and speculation.

And to think... I was able to make this large post without making some accusation about your character and without divining the very thoughts and intents of your heart in the process.

[NotforSale]

Originally Posted by Digging4Truth

Brother... For most of the history of mankind precious metals WAS money. It is a recent event, historically speaking, that worthless paper was used as money. The first mention of money in the Bible comes before the first mention of the tithe. The first mention of money comes about 1/3 the way into the first book of the Bible. Money has been in use and has been discussed in the Bible from book one.



I'm not sure what a supposable fact is... but... as mentioned above... money is used, described and discussed from the very first book of the Bible.



Yes sir... you are being awfully bold. You are evil surmising. You are assuming that you know the thoughts and intents of my heart. You assume that I do not give at least 10% of my income. You are falsely accusing your brother.

yes sir... You certainly are being bold.

And yet still... 66 books....4000 years of history... with money being an object of discussion from the very beginning and there are no scriptures that mention money or a persons wage in relation to the tithe.

Every scripture that mentions the tithe speaks in agricultural terms. Even when the priests were mishandling the tithe and God called them thieves he said he would "open the windows of heaven". Look that phrase up. Every single time it is used in the Bible (Except for Malachi 3 of course) it means rain.

There is not one leg to stand on with this stance exception assumptions and speculation.

And to think... I was able to make this large post without making some accusation about your character and without divining the very thoughts and intents of your heart in the process.

PTL Brother,

Try not to take my bold stance wrong. I'm sure if we were sitting across the table from each other, we would get along fine. Debating issues like this online is not the best way. I prefer one on one. You can only type so much, and like I'm sure you are aware, thoughts hit us after we press "enter".

It also helps to know someone in person. Judging one another by keyboard can easily lead to a false impression.

I know you use the Bible as a historical reference point, but we must also use other books or historical accounts of how people exchanged in the past. How did people receive or pay for other goods?? They didn't use ATM's, check books, credit cards, or cash.

A personal "wage" or "money" of the past was in fact crops, cattle, grain, whatever may be deemed as being valuable. We cannot avoid or ignore these past economics. People tithing their crops, was the same as money today.

You may think I'm a little off when I say this, but I don't want to do what the Scribes and Pharsees did. They were the ones who took the Word of God, knowing it chapter and verse. Paul, a renowned scholar, stood by to watch the stoning of Stephen. He knew the Word front and back, yet he was was lost from the simplicity of Christ.

I see Tithing as a simplistic approach of furthering the Gospel. When the Lord saved me in the Marine Corps in 1979, I gave a tenth of my income as a love offering and a show of gratitude for all God had done for me. Just my addictions alone cost me more than a tenth. It was the least I could do. It also helped our little church to get a building, build a baptistry, buy chairs, song books, a piano.

I've taught all of my Children, who are now grown and married, to honor God with the Tithe. They were a part of this Home Missions work, and saw the importance of Tithing, and how by faith we gave when it seemed nothing was left. Even when I could barely pick myself off of the floor, and when the famine had hit our lives here, we brought our first fruits into His House and He has never failed me.

I don't want to cut, divide, chop, and even go into a massive debate about this. We can "meaning" ourselves into or out of anything. A simple study does show, people tithed before the Law even existed. I choose to Tithe, and preach it as a ways and means to not only keep the "Money Monkey" off of our back, but to allow His Will to be done on this Earth while their is time left.

God Bless, Bro

[Digging4Truth]

Originally Posted by NotforSale

I choose to Tithe

Yes sir... that is pretty much the point.

I, also, choose to tithe and then some.

And that is my only point. It should be a choice that we make. Not giving of necessity of any law. As my wife has said on the subject... "It takes the blessing of giving and makes it a law upon me."

I feel that those who teach the tithe as a law on NT saints do the saints of the living God an injustice. We should, instead, teach a spirit of giving and let each be free to be led of their God to give as it is laid on their heart.

Then... what I give is, indeed, a gift and it comes from a heart filled with the Spirit of my God.

[The Lemon]

There are alot of points being made, some Biblical, some not. I don't mean to call you on the floor NFS, but to me it sounds like you are trying to justify the sacrifices that you and your family have made for the kingdom, starting a home missions work, based off of a structure and plan that you have been taught works.

I do not mean to say anything negative about your sacrifices for God, the Lord forbid. I thank God for anyone who will crucify the flesh and follow the call of God to reach souls. I would to God you be blessed in all you do for Jesus Christ.

Giving works...period. It takes giving and sacrifice...period. Where I am different in my stance, is that the Tithe is taught in many cases as essential, salvational, and a gauge for a persons spirituality or if they are "Right with God". This is, as far as I have been able to tell, from scripture, not the way we are to give (Of Necessity). There have been studies on this forum about the Tithe that usually get ignored by those who teach it as the plan of God for financing the work. Conversely, the side that does not teach the necessity of the Tithe tend to rant on those that do.

It seems there is no balance and personal attacks become inevitable. I have said this before, just because something "Works" does not mean it is necessarily right. Go talk to the JW or the Mormon and thell them there structure does not work....sure it does! Does that mean they teach truth? No!

Tithing church's are not the only church's that are sucessful. There are plenty who practice giving and not Tithing that are very sucessful. To say the ONLY model or even the only RIGHT model for a sucessful church in terms of financing the work, is Tithing, is absurd. But I totally understand why some folks support the teaching of Tithing, especially if that is how they were taught and it is what they have done in their ministry, after all....it does work....why? Because it is GIVING.

At any rate, the point that KEEPS GETTING MISSED, is that most of those who are posting on this thread give well over 10%. They do not have a "Money Monkey" on their back....I am just confused as to where that is coming from, I don't see it in DFT's posts.

If you go to a church that has an agreement for active members to Tithe, and a convenant is made and all are on board...fine. But to teach it as a mandatory law of God for NT believers is not Biblical, and no one who says it is has supported it with detailed study showing scripture. Especially when it is tied into a persons standing with God.

Just my thoughts...I sincerely mean no disrespect to anyone.

[A.W. Bowman]

Originally Posted by The Lemon

Just my thoughts...I sincerely mean no disrespect to anyone.

You did well, my friend.

[*AQuietPlace*]

Teaching tithing as a law can also cause people to live under fear. "Oh, no! My neighbor paid me $10 for helping him clean his lawn, and I forgot to tithe on it!!! Is that why my car broke down??"

We're taught that God will get his portion from us one way or the other. If we don't give it in the offering, he'll cause our washing machine to break down, costing us even more. (how that benefits God, I'm not sure.... teaches you a lesson, I guess) We fear that being a few dollars short on our tithe will bring a curse from God upon our finances. That we'll get to the pearly gates and realize we're 50 cents short in the tally that God's keeping, and too bad... we're fried.

Yes, it seriously is taught in that way many places. I have lived in fear because of it.

[NotforSale]

Originally Posted by *AQuietPlace*

Teaching tithing as a law can also cause people to live under fear. "Oh, no! My neighbor paid me $10 for helping him clean his lawn, and I forgot to tithe on it!!! Is that why my car broke down??"

We're taught that God will get his portion from us one way or the other. If we don't give it in the offering, he'll cause our washing machine to break down, costing us even more. (how that benefits God, I'm not sure.... teaches you a lesson, I guess) We fear that being a few dollars short on our tithe will bring a curse from God upon our finances. That we'll get to the pearly gates and realize we're 50 cents short in the tally that God's keeping, and too bad... we're fried.

Yes, it seriously is taught in that way many places. I have lived in fear because of it.

Do you pay taxes? Why?

[*AQuietPlace*]

Originally Posted by NotforSale

Do you pay taxes? Why?

Because I'll go to jail if I don't.

(Well, actually, the true answer would be - no, I don't. Not income, anyway. We have several children, that gives us enough deductions that we end up not paying anything.)

[A.W. Bowman]

Speaking of money, there was the Temple tax that was required of everyone who used the Temple, and that tax was earmarked for Temple maintenance. Then there were the money changers, where folks from different parts of the world could come and exchange their “whatever” money into shekels to buy the required sacrificial animals and/or pay their Temple tax. There was also the need to sell one’s sacrifice and carry money when one lived too far away to bring all that produce and/or livestock to Jerusalem. But, what they did with all that money after getting to Jerusalem? Mercy! It would make a Pentecostal preacher dizzy with shock and disbelief! But, God approved of it and even provided instructions for the use of that money!

However, I think there is a growing number of folks still lurking about and waiting for the teaching on biblical tithing and how those statutes are to be scripturally applied to the church today.

Please, sound Bible teaching! If New Covenant tithing is not just another doctrine created by men, for men, then provide us with the legitimate biblical doctrine! This is not an unreasonable request, especially for those who stand as teachers of the Law!

BTW, as noted by another, I have not read one word in this entire thread where anyone advocated, condoned, or otherwise supported the idea of not maintaining either their church facilities or providing support to ministers of the gospel. However, fostering unearned or unmerited guilt is a poor substitute for sound arguments.

Recommendation: Stick to the subject at hand. Is tithing a command (implied, in a New Covenant church)?

[A.W. Bowman]

Recommendation: Stick to the subject at hand. Is tithing a command (implied, in a New Covenant church)?

The issue is a simple one. If tithing is a requirement on the church, then use the Bible to teach it. If it is not, then the whole argument is mute.

The required teaching then falls to the spiritual leaders to teach the subject of giving. Why, when, where, how much, etc. But, if at any time the law is invoked to support an argument (teaching, doctrine), then one required to actually teach the law!

One of the problems we have within the church today is we have too many teachers of the law, who neither know nor understand what it is they are teaching.